Why are Chinese characters still used?

china1   Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:07 pm GMT
These are the meaning of 生.
1.to give birth to
2.to produce
3.to grow
4.to live
5.life
6.living
7.uncooked
8.not ripe
9.unfamiliar
10.unprocessed; unrefined
11.a student; a pupil




These are commonly used words of 生.
生育、生长、生存、生计、生命、生平、产生、发生、生疏、生硬、老生、小生、武生、好生、怎生、出生、滋生、产生、生产、生活、人生、生动、生物、生人、生气、生火
Guest   Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:12 pm GMT
That's sooo easy.........
china1   Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:33 pm GMT
生产、产生
人生、生人
We find the order of two group of words reversed. But their meaning is different.
So, from this point of view,Chinese is easy than other language.
CANadian   Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:37 pm GMT
Patrick said:

<< This is not to put down characters- again, I think hanzi (especially traditional ones) are very aesthetically pleasing, interesting to study, and an important part of Chinese culture. >>

It is certainly not my intention to put them down either, they look beautiful and I don't want them to change at all. Chinese should stay the way it is.

However, I'm merely arguing that, in general, alphabets seem to be a more efficient option than pictograms, at least at this day and age. And by alphabets, I don't only mean English, but also every language that uses an alphabet, be it Cyrillic, Arabic, or even Runic.

Also, and by extension, I think Chinese characters have no place in modern Japanese because of:

1-their inefficiency (see above)
2-their foreign origin and consequent incompatibility with Japanes

and not because of their difficulty.
/   Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:05 am GMT
CANadian,

How much Japanese do you know? How much Chinese? Are you fluent?
CANadian   Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:08 am GMT
<How much Japanese do you know? How much Chinese? Are you fluent?>

I unfortunately speak neither Japanese nor Chinese, but I do know a thing or two about the former's syllaberies and the latter's characters a well as the sounds and constructions of both.
Mo Shui   Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:03 am GMT
CANadians said:

<<Unless you're inherently stupid (which I don't think you are) then you should have no problem…

Sir, you are STILL not answering the question!
The question is: How can you tell that 网球 means TENNIS and not Volleyball or Basketball? How do you clarify the confusion?>>



Even an inherently stupid person (which I don't think you are) knows that a new word needs to be created and defined before it is accepted and used as a vocabulary of a certain language. This applies to every language on the planet.

Before网球is used to mean ‘tennis’, it was created with existing characters and defined to mean ‘tennis’. I fail to see any confusion that needs to be clarified.

On the one hand, 网球 is easy to remember for anyone who is learning Mandarin if they already know the characters 网and 球.

On the other hand, the word ‘tennis’ is simply a sound made up of two meaningless syllables (since ‘ten’ here doesn’t mean the number 10) for someone who is learning English. Learning it by rote seems to be the only possible way. Some inquisitive learners might probably wonder why it’s called tennis, and not ninenis, eightnis, sevennis, or even penis instead.

It’s clear that this argument arose from your ignorance of the Chinese language. You seem to believe, and insist on believing, that the Chinese randomly use characters to form new words and let other make wild guesses at what they’re talking about, and thus create a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in their communication with one another.
CANadian   Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:25 pm GMT
.... and you still didn't say how to wrote the words "basketball" and "volleyball" in Chinese... I don't you'll ever tell us, eh?

<< On the other hand, the word ‘tennis’ is simply a sound made up of two meaningless syllables (since ‘ten’ here doesn’t mean the number 10) for someone who is learning English. Learning it by rote seems to be the only possible way. Some inquisitive learners might probably wonder why it’s called tennis, and not ninenis, eightnis, sevennis, or even penis instead. >>

It's not random at all, the word TENNIS originated from the French imperative verb (Tenez) which means hold, contextually, it means ~ "here you go", said from one player to another just before hitting the ball with the racquet...
Mo Shui   Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:01 pm GMT
basketball = 篮球
volleyball = 排球

<<It's not random at all, the word TENNIS originated from the French imperative verb (Tenez) which means hold, contextually, it means ~ "here you go", said from one player to another just before hitting the ball with the racquet... >>

Looks like we need to learn French before we learn English.
CANadian   Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:20 pm GMT
Finish what you started... what do 篮 and 排 mean?
How come there's no 网?
Mo Shui   Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:17 pm GMT
篮 means 'basket' and 排 means 'row'.
排球 used to be called something else before 排球 was finally accepted. There is a story behind it. I'm not quite interested in why it's called 排球。 You can simply google it to find out.

Maybe you can tell me why 'basketball' is called 'basketball' and 'netball' is called 'netball' in English.
utilisateur   Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:25 pm GMT
<< Looks like we need to learn French before we learn English. >>

Percentage of English speakers that know what the word tennis means: 99-100%. Percentage of English speakers that know tennis derives from the french word tenez: >1%.
CANadian   Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:01 pm GMT
Ok Mo Shui, I'll give you the basketball thing, how about the rest of them which Western and I brought up:

动物 (Thing that moves -how should I know it's an animal?-)
动人 (Man thing -What does that have to do with Touching?-)
人物 (Man thing -Again, it has nothing to do with Character?-)
行动 (Thing that walks -Action.. but why couldn't it be "Dog that jumps"?)
生动 (Live Move -it's pretty hard to figure out that that means "lively"-)
生人 (Alive person -So any person alive is an Stranger?-)
人人 (Two persons -As they said it should be Couple not Everybody)
Harrison   Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:46 am GMT
>> Kaeops
To say that an alphabet (e.g. pinyin) is more efficient and easy to learn than ideograms (e.g. hanzi) is not a cultural judgment; it is an objective fact. How much value to place on efficiency vs. tradition is of course a subjective, cultural matter. But we can still compare writing systems objectively on various criteria without being advocates. <<

>> Skippy
It's not that the Chinese should give it up, but I really think teachers of Chinese (especially in the West) need to remove it from the curriculum until you get to be more advanced. It's a huge turn off having to learn a new alphabet, much less a pictographic system. <<


Latinxua Sin Wenz (Romanized Written Mandarin)

Latinxua Sin Wenz (拉丁化新文字; pinyin: Lādīnghuà Xīn Wénzì) is a kind of Romanization System for Mandarin before 1950s. It was usually written without "tones" under the assumption that the proper tones could be understood from the meaning of Mandarin words, phrases and context because this Romanized Writing System is according to the natural Mandarin Colloquial Speech.

Latinxua Sin Wenz is historically notable as being the first Romanization System used in place of Chinese characters by Native Mandarin Speakers. It was originally developed by the scholars of Soviet Union and used by Mandarin speaking immigrants there until the majority of them left the country. Later, it was revived for some time in Northern China where it was used by over 200,000s popular people and printed in this writing system over 300 publications before its usage ceased by the government at 1950s.


History and development

The work towards constructing the Beifangxua Latinxua Sin Wenz (北方話拉丁化新文字) system began in Moscow as early as 1928 when the Soviet Scientific Research Institute on China sought to create a means through which the large Mandarin speaking population living in the Far Eastern Region (Vladivostok and Khabarovsk) of the U.S.S.R. could be made literate, facilitating their further education.

This was significantly different from all other romanization schemes in that, from the very outset, it was intended that the Latinxua Sin Wenz system, once established, would supersede the Chinese characters. They decided to use the Latin alphabet because they thought that it would serve their purpose better than the Cyrillic alphabet. Unlike Gwoyeu Romatzyh, with its complex method of indicating "tones", Latinxua Sin Wenz system does not indicate "tones" at all, and it is not Mandarin-specific and so could be used for other Chinese languages and dialects.

The eminent Moscow-based Chinese scholar Qu Qiubai (1899-1935) and the Russian linguist V.S. Kolokolov (1896-1979) devised a prototype romanization system in 1929.

In 1931 a coordinated effort between the Soviet sinologists B.M. Alekseev, A.A. Dragunov and A.G. Shrprintsin, and the Moscow-based Chinese scholars Qu Qiubai, Wu Yuzhang, Lin Boqu, Xiao San, Wang Xiangbao, and Xu Teli established the Latinxua Sin Wenz system. This Romanization System was supported by a number of Chinese intellectuals such as Guo Moruo and Lu Xun, and trials were conducted amongst 100,000 Chinese immigrant workers for about four years and later, in 1940-1942, in the communist-controlled Shaanxi-Gansu-Ningxia Border Region of China. In November 1949, the railways in China's north-east adopted the Latinxua Sin Wenz system for all their telecommunications.

For a time, this Romanization System of Mandarin was a very important communication tool in spreading literacy in Northern China areas. There were more than 200,000s population of this writing system and 300 publications totalling half a million issues appeared in Latinxua Sin Wenz.

In 1944 the Latinization Movement was officially curtailed in the communist-controlled areas [of Nothern China] on the pretext that there were insufficient trained cadres capable of teaching this writing system. It is more likely that, as the communists prepared to take power in a much wider territory, they had second thoughts about the rhetoric that surrounded the Latinization Movement; in order to obtain the maximum popular support, they withdrew support from a movement that deeply offended many supporters of the traditional writing system in script of Chinese character.


Latinxua Sin Wenz: 拉丁化新文字; pinyin: Lādīnghuà Xīn Wénzì; also known as Sin Wenz, Latinxua Sinwenz, Zhongguo Latinxua Sin Wenz, Beifangxua Latinxua Sin Wenz or Latinxua
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinxua_Sin_Wenz

An issue of "Dazhung Bao" (大眾报, Dazhong Bao), a newspaper published in Latinxua Sin Wenz in 1932
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dazhongbao.jpg
anti-Shuimo   Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:53 am GMT
Here is another reason why Chinese characters are archaic and inefficient:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/world/asia/21china.html?_r=1&hp

What do you make of that?