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Don't learn Traditional Chinese characters, but Peh-oe-ji
Tai-oan-lang Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:14 am GMT
Peh-oe-ji is the elegant script for Taiwanese. In the history of linguistic evolution, only the people who are not brave to face the challenge from linguistic evolution will learn Traditional Chinese characters.
Here is Taiwanese, which is easier than Traditional Chinese characters:
Tâi-oân sī óa Thài-pêng-iûⁿ sai-hōaⁿ ê tó-sū, kap Tiong-kok chi-kan keh chı̍t-tiâu O·-chúi-kau (Tâi-ôan Hái-kiap). I koh hō-chòe Formosa, sī àn Phû-tô-gâ-gú (Ilha) Formosa lâi--ê, ì-sù sī "Bí-lē (Tó)".
Tâi-oân ê sù-kùi bô-chhiūⁿ ūi-tō· khah kôan ê kok-tō· hun-bêng. I ê un-tō· chha-put-to tī Liap-sī 6 tō· kàu Liap-sī 36 tō· tiong-kan. Ē-sái-kóng sī sù-kùi-jû-chhun, chin sek-ha̍p lâng tòa ê só·-chāi.
Tâi-oân mā ū lâng chheng-hō· sī "pó-tó".
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Bullsh*t!
"Tionghoa Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:59 am GMT
To: Calloff, I'm afraid you're absolutely wrong, please remember that Tionghoa is NOT Shuimo.
I must emphasize there're a lot of vocabularies or sentences which can written as several different characters in Chinese, and they all have very different meanings,
for example:
上医治未病 (correct)
上衣致胃病 (wrong )
上医治胃病 (wrong )
上衣治未病 (wrong )
尚医致胃病 (wrong)
BTW, Dungan language is not viewed as a pure Chinese dialect, because it's an special language which was deeply affected by Russian, Persian, Turkish, and Arabic, your interrogation just showed that you're completely a layman (outsider) to everything about Chinese languages. Just get down to your rational research please. "
Tionghoa or Shuimo whatever. All are the same!
Dungan is Mandarin but just with a little influence from foreign languages like Russian etc. But basically the daily vocabularies used by Dungan people is almost 100% similiar with Beijing's Mandarin. Their difference is just like British and American English.
So, those Chinese people especially Chinese characters scholars have the special interest in telling the lies to all people from the rest of the world that Mandarin can not be romanized. Those scholars from China are the most foolish in the world.
To: Calloff:
1.(Tionghoa or Shuimo whatever. All are the same!)
Re: If Tionghoa were Shuimo, I would die, if not, you would die. OK? It's very fair.
2.(Those scholars from China are the most foolish in the world.)
Re: I don't know where you're from, but I don't care about the statements that made by those stupid outsiders, it seems like that, you're more proficient in my native language---Mandarin than I am. And I'm more familiar with your native language than you are? What an excellent Chinese expert you are, lol......haha.......
"1.(Tionghoa or Shuimo whatever. All are the same!)
Re: If Tionghoa were Shuimo, I would die, if not, you would die. OK? It's very fair. "
See, Chinese ppl are good in threating people.
"2.(Those scholars from China are the most foolish in the world.)
Re: I don't know where you're from, but I don't care about the statements that made by those stupid outsiders, it seems like that, you're more proficient in my native language---Mandarin than I am. And I'm more familiar with your native language than you are? What an excellent Chinese expert you are, lol......haha....... "
Everyone in the world knows Chinese scholars have the worst reputation in telling lies. No doubt!
To Calloff,
haha......It's not threating you, because you tried to force me to tell you that, and If you want other people to respect you, you should respect them first, but you don't know this common sense. To an arrogant, rude, vexatious, ridiculous person like you, what else can I talk with you further, after all, I'm not skilled in defamation and racial discrimination as you. You won this game! OK? Are you happy, man?
Dear speakers of all languages,
Just because you are a native speaker does not mean you are an expert. Just because you are a native speaker does not mean a non-native speaker cannot know something about your language that you do not know. Just because you are a native speaker does not make you right. Just because someone is not a native speaker does not mean they are not informed on this or that issue.
To: Reality check (Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:43 am GMT)
Re: Yes, you're all right, thank you very much for reminding me of this common sense.
But, not only am I a native Mandarin speaker, but also do I know more about Chinese language (such as Classical Chinese, Classic Poems, and Modern Chinese) than a lot of native Chinese, or than those who've just learnt a little Chinese so far, but even dared to say that Chinese must be Latinised, or to criticize all of Chinese schloars subjectively (though I'm not schloar). Yes, I know that, some western professors are really proficient in Chinese languages, and usually they all love Chinese characters very much, instead of being hostile to characters, they even know a lot about Wenyan system which isn't widely mastered by native Chinese who can only speak colloquial Mandarin everyday. I would respect them and like to hear them out, but I wouldn't waste too much time listening to those theories that are obvious biased or only based on their native languages. Certainly they have the human rights to comment on it, but I also have the right to answer them back or pay no attention to them. OK, that's all...
Why then do you claim that Dunganese is not Chinese when that scholarly article says it is? I may not be an expert on Chinese, but the person who wrote that article is clearly highly educated and obviously knows more about this Dunganese than you. Unless of course you have any professional academic papers claiming that it is not Chinese. If you do, please present them. I would be interested to read and compare your papers.
As I said before, I'm not a professor or scholar, but I just visited wiki website, as below,
In fact, I'm not familiar with Cyrillic alphabet, but I can understand hanyupinyin system. Now I would like to tell you that, I can't understand clearly those pinyin which were transformed from Chinese characters, and I feel that even those characters don't fit in with Chinese grammar, idioms, or usages, and when I read them, I found they're some broken Mandarin that perhaps would make us Chinese laugh. Most of all, if I didn't see those characters, I'm sure it's very possible for us to misunderstand the hanyupinyin or Cyrillic system. If you think I'm telling a lie, just find other Chinese to read Dunganese without showing them characters. I won't be able to give you my academic papers, but some personal feelings, at least, maybe a lot of Chinese would think it this way. Believe it or not, I'm afraid that I have to repeat, whether character can be Latinised or not, mostly depends on Chinese word formation and a lot of other identities, it's not only because we Chinese don't want to change them into Latin alphabet due to our national pride, I still think it the key point to highlight for not Latinising characters.
WIKI:
Ни зэ бә щё, Вә бу щин, ни зэ бә хун!
Nǐ zài bié xiào, Wǒ bú xìn, nǐ zài bié hǒng!
你再別笑！我不信，你再別哄！
Ни зэ бә сы, хулюҗин, вәди нян щин!
Nǐ zài bié sī, húlíjīng, wǒde niàn xīn!
你再別撕，狐狸精，我的念心!
Вә зэ бу на жә щин хуан ниди лын щё,
Wǒ zài bù ná rè xīn huàn nǐde lěng xiào,
我再不拿熱心換你的冷笑，
Вә чин ни хуан хо щинчи. Зэ бә зо вә!
Wǒ qǐng nǐ huán hǎo xīngqì. Zài bié zhǎo wǒ!
我請你還好腥氣。再別找我!
Broken Mandarin......
<<I found they're some broken Mandarin that perhaps would make us Chinese laugh. Most of all, if I didn't see those characters, I'm sure it's very possible for us to misunderstand the hanyupinyin or Cyrillic system. If you think I'm telling a lie, just find other Chinese to read Dunganese without showing them characters.>>
Of course you would laugh if you don't know it. But why don't the Dunganese people laugh when they're talking to eachother. Why does it seem perfectly normal to them when they write to eachother using Cyrillic? Why aren't they always laughing? Why are they able to communicate 100% normally without misunderstandings even though they use Cyrillic? Those are the FACTS. The Cyrillic functions effectively like any other language on earth, it DOES actually function, that is the REALITY.
To; ulashto (Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:59 am GMT)
Re: If you don't plan to learn Chinese in future, it makes no sense for you to argue out the Latinization of Chinese characters, by engaging in idle theorizing. If you've already learned Chinese for some time, you'll realize gradually why Latinization is unfeasible for Characters, after you manage to reach an intermediate or advanced level of Chinese language. As a Chinese, If you think yourself much clever than Chinese, I hope you can find a way out to help us Chinese carry out Latinization, without any negative problems, though a lot of Chinese experts failed in everything they tried during over 100 years. Thanks!
<<Re: If you don't plan to learn Chinese in future, it makes no sense for you to argue out the Latinization of Chinese characters, by engaging in idle theorizing. If you've already learned Chinese for some time, you'll realize gradually why Latinization is unfeasible for Characters, after you manage to reach an intermediate or advanced level of Chinese language. As a Chinese, If you think yourself much clever than Chinese, I hope you can find a way out to help us Chinese carry out Latinization, without any negative problems, though a lot of Chinese experts failed in everything they tried during over 100 years. Thanks! >>
Latinisation may not work, but Cyrillicisation is feasible, because it has actually been done, and it worked!
> Tionghoa Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:41 am GMT
Peh-oe-ji system is only used in Minnanese (a Chinese dialect, also called as Taiwanese in Taiwan), but absolutely not suitable for Mandarin or Cantonese.
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Are you hear the “Latinxua Sin Wenz” (拉丁化新文字)?
This Latinized Written Mandarin is a kind of writing system in the script of Latin alphabet for Mandarin language. Which was developed by the linguists of Soviet Union and the scholars of Mandarin speaker at 1920s. This Latinization system was used by Mandarin speakers in Far Eastern Region of Soviet Union and Northern China where it was used by over 200,000s popular people and have over 300 publications with half a million issues. In 1950s, the Language Policy banned this Latinized Mandarin.
From the time of about 1890, the books were printed on Latinized Written Cantonese by the Western missionaries whom promoted this writing system to the poor Cantonese people for them to have the chance of reading by themselves. In 1950s, the Language Policy also banned this latinization system.
> Tionghoa Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:59 am GMT
I must emphasize there're a lot of vocabularies or sentences which can written as several different characters in Chinese, and they all have very different meanings,
for example:
上医治未病 (correct)
上衣致胃病 (wrong )
上医治胃病 (wrong )
上衣治未病 (wrong )
尚医致胃病 (wrong)
===================
The Literary Chinese (wunyenwun) and Written Mandarin are two different Written Language.
The Literary Chinese is not suitable for latinization because:
1. which vocabulary are usually based on single syllable such as your example:
上 医 治 未病 (correct)
上衣 致 胃病 (wrong )
上 医 治 胃病 (wrong )
上衣 治 未病 (wrong )
尚 医 致 胃病 (wrong)
2. Literary Chinese is a “message” but not a spoken language in the past any centuries, not people said it in conversation every day. Which just like the logos for people to see and then understand its meaning.
But, the Written Mandarin are suitable for latinization because:
1. Mandarin vocabulary are usually based on multiple syllables.
2. Mandarin is a living spoken language in every day for many centuries.
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