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Don't learn Traditional Chinese characters, but Peh-oe-ji
戰後中國國民黨的語言文字政策基本上繼承了日本殖民地主義的精神，即同樣地推行「國語」（此次為中國話），同樣地打擊「方言」，同樣地對台羅字厭如蛇蠍。戰後國民黨打擊台語與台羅字的例子不勝枚舉：一九六九年下令禁止在教會公報使用台羅字；一九七三年在香港發行的Embree氏之台英辭典（使用台羅字）亦被禁止進口、沒收；一九七五年天主教瑪利諾會與長老教會的台語新約聖經亦被查禁；其他雜誌等一刊登台羅字馬上就被查禁。而且這些例子都是完全侵害宗教自由、表現自由的殘暴鎮壓，迄今尚未恢復公道。
最近歷史學與社會語言學有關語言或文字的盛衰之研究結果對我們的啟示，乃是語言或文字的盛衰的關鍵因素完全在於政治權力的所在，就是掌握權力的人或集團推動什麼語言或文字，什麼語言或文字旺盛；相反地，未掌握政治權力的人或集團所使用的語言或文字，往往被貶視為「下流的方言」、「幼兒亂畫、大家看不懂」，甚至受到殘暴地鎮壓而衰退；最典型的例子是愛爾蘭戈爾語與文字；十九世紀的斯洛伐克語等東歐語言文字亦如此，台羅字亦如此。台羅字歷經一百年間之外來政權的鎮壓後逐漸衰退，絕對並非文字設計本身的問題。
"Tionghoa Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:30 am GMT
To： Tai-oan-lang Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:19 am GMT
若按你的说法划分，英国的北爱尔兰要独立，加拿大的魁北克要独立，西班牙的加利西亚要独立，法国的普罗旺斯要独立，美国估计更要四分八裂了。就连你们台湾还可以再划分，所有原住民一个国，闽南移民又是一个国，外省台人也是一个国。依我看，你是担心世界不乱，民众不苦。其它原因我实在想不到了。 "
就是要和越南同胞一樣不想和你們支那統一!
<<Tai-oan-lang Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:30 am GMT
"NowYouSeeMeNowYouDont Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:25 am GMT
哗！好精彩呀！繁体字和简体字大过招！
我不是中国人，也不是台湾人，只是看到那些洋人，对汉字一点认识都没有，却那么喜欢讨论汉字，又总是那同一论调：拉丁字母比较优秀，看不下去了，所以插口说了一句，想不到......竟然引起两岸开战！
先問問你們那些支那人是如何迫害和打壓我們台灣的台語教會羅馬字的 >>
別那么陳水扁行不行，我都說我不是中國人了，還鳥我支那人！
看看你自己！簡直被仇恨沖昏了頭腦，看來腦殘也為期不遠了......這就是醞釀累積仇恨的下場，最后的受害者永遠是自己！
怎么讓自己活得那么不像人......真同情你！
To：Tai-oan-lang
（就是要和越南同胞一樣不想和你們支那統一!）
这位台湾人，你是不是基督教徒？如果是的话，上帝不希望你这样讲话。如果你不是，在你骂人时，至少也该具备基本的羞耻感。有时你憎恨别人，其实伤害的还是你自己。
台湾民进党执政八年，为何台湾经济迅速下降？民进党的阿扁贪污了几十亿新台币，他是个彻彻底底的大贪污犯，但民进党却还要支持无耻的阿扁设法脱罪。台湾的民生未能搞好，每天消耗在蓝绿阵营的野蛮争斗中，今天抛出皮鞋，明天撕毁衬衣，后天又要去“呛马”，除了这些政治流氓行为之外，民进党究竟还能做出什么大手笔？如今国民党终于开放两岸经济，果农菜农欣喜之极，总算可以真正盈利了，台湾的各家“旅行社”也赚到大钱。总之，既利于台湾经济，又利于台湾民生，这种造福民众的事民进党不会做吗？民进党的几位大佬陆续访问了大陆，这就说明民进党内也有些聪明人，他们和“阿扁“、蔡英文等人是截然不同的。如果民进党继续闭关自守，台湾的经济只会越来越呈现低靡之态。
Well, just let this post sink down, I'm fed up with hostile argument. OK?
> Boh-dai-ji Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:52 am GMT
> If Taiwan were to adopt this so-called 'Peh-oe-ji' as its Guoyu (national language) in place of Mandarin,
> I believe it would be downgraded to a region that is even more isolated from the world.
In the past Qing dynasty, Manchurian officers agreed the popular people were talking in Taiwanese in schools and mostly used Peh-oe-ji as the written language.
The Written Mandarin were promoted into Taiwan at 1940s. From the 1950s, the Taiwanese was banned and replaced by Mandarin in the schools, later in the public media etc. The Peh-oe-ji was banned from 1970s.
In today the "multi-cultures policy" was held in Taiwan, so the native Taiwanese speaker has the human right to choose their spoken language and written language.
If adopt the Peh-oe-ji that may isolate Taiwan from the world, then many Asian countries may be isolated from the world because they have not Mandarin as Guoyu (national language).
Anyhow, Taiwan choose the Peh-oe-ji or Written Mandarin that there is also a region, not any downgraded or upgraded in there. The schools of Taiwan may be provide the multi-languages courses for students to learn such as 1. Written Mandarin, 2. Peh-oe-ji, or Written Hakka, or Formosans 3. English, 4. Classical and Literary Chinese, etc.
In Germany, the secondary schools provide 6 kinds of languages for students to learn such as 1. German, 2. Latin, 3. Greek, 4. English or French, 5. and 6. other two European or Asian languages.
The Philippines and India also provide the multi-languages courses for students; 1. an ethnic language of the student, 2. the official language of the state 3. English and 4. etc.
> Tionghoa Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:52 am GMT
除了少数台湾原著民之外，
原著民 (Indigenous peoples)
Are you mean the Ethnic Formosan Groups: Ami, Atayal, Bunun, Kavalan, Paiwan, Puyuma, Rukai, Saisiyat, Tao, Thao, Tsou, Truku, Sakizaya, and Sediq.
The Indigenous peoples (原著民) of Taiwan is the Negritos (矮黑人).
Sorry, not 原著民, should be 原住民 (gôan-chū-bîn), means aborigines.
> Tionghoa Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:37 am GMT
yes, with latin alphabet, you can read and hear the sounds, but what does these sounds mean in Mandarin or Cantonese?
The word and sound (syllable) are different concepts. The meaning of Mandarin or Cantonese are expressed in the word, not in a syllable (sound). A word can be a mono-syllable or multi-syllables, but as a natural language in which the words with multi-syllables are more than the mono-syllable.
Mandarin and Cantonese are two different languages / dialects, thus they have different "syllabary" or "phonetic system". Such as English and French have different "phonetic system.
example:
Mandarin words:
guà (掛)
yángtóu (羊頭)
mài (賣)
gǒuròu (狗肉)
Mandarin sounds (syllables):
guà (掛)
yáng (羊)
tóu (頭)
mài (賣)
gǒu (狗)
ròu (肉)
刚刚看到这段短文。懂英文的人其实阅读起来还是挺轻松的。
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
难怪汉语拼音或闽南语白话字难读。每个字的首尾字母是辨别的重点。声调拼音 tonal spelling（就是尾头用字母表示声调，像国语罗马字，苗语 RPA ，我用的闽南语蝌蚪字等等），因为尾头字母所代表的声调及文法词类有相关性，字体在尾头而且又比一般声调符号大，阅读起来就事半功倍。今天终于知道为什么声调拼音对于阅读方便那么重要了。
English：from the above paragraph in ill-spelt English, one can see that the recognition of words in English reading depends largely on the first and last letter. This too makes the tonal spelling much more efficient for human reading in tonal languages. For instance, in the Taiwanese language, tonal features are correlated wtih grammatical functions. Thus, using a tonal letter elucidates this correlation much more clearly. Thumbs down for Peh-oe-ji, thumbs up for Tadpolenese, ha ha:
http://www.tadpolenese.com/
> Tionghoa,
Here are list of more examples.
English sounds (syllables):
you,
can,
read,
La,
tin,
al,
pha,
bet,
Man,
da,
rin,
Can,
ton,
ese,
English words:
you
can
read
(word with mono-syllable)
Latin
alphabet
Mandarin
Cantonese
(word with multi-syllables)
> Tionghoa Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:07 pm GMT
> 知己知彼、百战不殆。(knowing both enemy and yourself clearly, then you can fight a hundred battles with no danger of defeat.)
> None of above characters is truly polysyllable vocabulary, but a few combined single characters that play an active and intelligent role in suitable positions, if you insist that manner of speaking should be switched to colloquial vulgar Chinese, then it would be change into 既要知道自己的情况，又要知道对方的实力，只有这样，才能在战争中不打败仗。If in this special way, probably (I'm not very sure) it would be able to guess the meanings of the words from the context, but it's not the right way that mandarin used to be, or should be. Actually each single character can't act effectively as a qualified or practical vocabulary in the context, unless it combines other characters which might bring about some troubles, such as ambiguous, homophonicor, or elusive phenomena.
1. This is a sentence of Classical Chinese:
"知己知彼、 百战不殆。"
Classical Chinese words
知
己
知
彼
百
战
不
殆
2. (a) This is a sentence of Written Mandarin:
"既要知道自己的情况， 又要知道对方的实力， 只有这样， 才能在战争中不打败仗。"
"Jiyao zhidao ziyi de qingkuang, youyao zhidao duifang de shili, zhiyou zheyang, caineng zai zhanzheng zhong bu da baizhang. "
2. (b) This is a "PHRASE" of Written Mandarin which is borrowed from the "SENTENCE" of Classical Chinese:
"知己知彼、 百战不殆。"
"zhiyizhibi, baizhanbudai."
Written Mandarin words
de (的)
zai (在)
zhong (中)
bu (不)
da (打)
(Mandarin word with monosyllable)
jiyao (既要)
zhidao (知道)
ziyi (自己)
qingkuang (情况)
youyao (又要)
duifang (对方)
shili (实力)
zhiyou (只有)
zheyang (这样)
caineng (才能)
zhanzheng (战争)
baizhang (败仗)
zhiyizhibi (知己知彼)
baizhanbudai (百战不殆)
(Mandarin word with polysyllables)
Mandarin words with fixed polysyllables doesn't really function unless people have the basic knowledge of understanding Chinese characters, that's to say, while people are reading Chinese in Latinization, they still interpret Chinese articles with the thinking of characters, with classical Chinese, and with traditional idioms, it's certainly not that, they immediately comprehend Latinization as soon as they just see the Latinization, quite the contrary, at that time, people have to read Latinization much more inefficiently and childishly than Chinese characters. Also, the key point is that, those various free combined method of Chinese characters (into vocabularies) are absolutely not all in fixed patterns just like unchanging European words in the dictionaries. For example, youyao (又要) is only a combination of 2 characters, instead of 1 fixed vocabulary, if you force it to be a vocabulary, then several patterns will appear based on different status. especially zhiyizhibi (知己知彼), baizhanbudai (百战不殆), if you don't know this classical Chinese, you won't understand what it exactly means, even if you can force yourself to memorize it mechanically, you still can't either learn other classical Chinese by analogy, or draw inferences about other cases from these instances. In brief, the soul of Chinese writing system should be single characters, the patchworks that were pieced together with Latinization doesn't suit Chinese fine, it even seems rather absurd from the viewpoint of Chinese. All in all, if Latinization were put into action someday, then classical Chinese would die out, the classical elements that exist in modern Chinese (Mandarin, Cantonese, Minnanese) would also mostly disappear, maybe people know them ambiguously, but don't know how and why it can express this special meaning. That'll be the biggest tragedy of Chinese world, Chinese culture, and Chinese history. Again, I wasted my time on explaining to foreigners Why Chinese writing system can't be Latinized, if you're still not able to understand the key factors, perhaps I can do nothing to help you any more. If you think I'm telling you a lie, then just ignore my posts. Wish you the best !
practice: zhiyizhibi (知己知彼)
correction: zhi Ji (not yi) zhi bi
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