Topic 4 N Americans- How is Spanish lang perceived in USA?

Cubans can pass for white because they ARE white. No surprise there.

Hispanic doesn't mean non-white; it means some sort of ancestry derived from Spain (including Portugal, strictly speaking). Spaniards are as white as they come.

Anyway, yes, I've been to California. I wouldn't be too quick to draw conclusions about the prevalence of Spanish and Spanish-only environments in the U.S. Most of them are calculated to appeal to and control a large underclass of people who speak only Spanish but not English; these people are preyed upon by demagogues and others who take advantage of their inability to integrate into the mainstream. Spanish-speaking people who refuse to learn English in the U.S. are shooting themselves in the foot and setting themselves up to be shafted by a never-ending succession of Spanish-speaking con artists.

The real irony is that most people who speak only Spanish in the U.S. are illiterate in both Spanish and English … so they can't read Spanish billboards, anyway. Smart Hispanophones who can read and speak Spanish are also smart enough to learn English as quickly as possible upon moving to the U.S. It's a prerequisite to success, if one defines success as anything beyond one's own neighborhood.

No, you can't generalize about the ethnicity of Cubans just like you can't say Americans ARE white.

At least 10% of Cubans are black and the majority are mulatto which means of mixed black and white ancestry.

You mudbloods make me sick.

Where I live, there are a lot of businesses with signs that say "Hablamos Espanol", and quite a few with signs entirely in Spanish. If I go into certain stores, I always hears someone talking in Spanish. Personally, I don't need to know Spanish, but anyone who wants a job in any of the neighborhood businesses should know it. Anyone who wants to sell a house to all the Spanish-speakers moving into my area should know it. And, though Spanish is probably still percieved as a language of the poor, I'd say, based on all the houses they're buying, that a lot of them have too much money to ignore.

It sometimes seems that some American people who are ashamed of having an anglo-saxon culture would be happy if spanish will become the language of the country one day instead of english.

<<How is the Spanish language perceived in the US?

Is it like a second class language of the “Latinos” hotel maids or construction labours?
Is it annoying in sound to Americans?
Is it important if you are bilingual English Spanish?
Is Spanish language learned by Americans in school?
Do you like Spanish? If yes what variety? Iberic or American Spanish ?

Thank you ! >>

I live in New Mexico, which has the highest percentage of hispanic population in the US, and gives both Spanish and English official-language status, so I hear it every day. I don't find it annoying or "second-class" at all; in fact, I took it in high school, as do many Americans. And given the realities of doing business in NM, being bilingual is highly beneficial -- if I had the money, I would take classes in it to brush up -- it would sure look good on the old resume!

As far as "liking" Spanish -- well, I enjoyed learning it more than I enjoyed French, which I found just preposterous to spell and pronounce (sorry, greg! :) ) I think as far as varieties go, I'm more used to the local variety, so I find the lisping quality of Castilian a little odd.

<<There is a 'yes' and a 'no' to that statement. While most Hispanic (primarily Mexican) immigration to the United States has occurred only in the last 15 to 25 years, some Spanish speaking communities have existed in the American Southwest since the seventeenth, and early eighteenth centuries - as long as French in eastern Canada.>>

That is true but the numbers pale in comparison to the French speakers who've been in Canada for centuries. The total population of California in 1830 (an area now home to 36 million) had a population of less than 5,000. Even of that tiny population very few were monolingual native Spanish speakers, tho by that point many of the indigenous people (who were the majority of the 5,000) were at least somewhat proficient in Spanish or bilingual.

It's worth noting that the Spanish speakers indigenous to the regions you mentioned had for the most part not adopted Spanish on a significant basis until well into the 19th century (the indigenous languages as widespread entities survived well into that century in the Southwest). The number of mestizo or European-descended native Spanish speakers in those regions were even less (the few and spread-out landowning Californios, as they were known). You really can't compare the situation to the one with French in Canada---they're very different.

There are some pretty old dialects of Spanish in New Mexico, as well as old Spanish land-grants. But NM has never had much of a population -- it's still under 2 million. But the Spanish descendents are mostly in the north -- hispanics in southern NM are mostly of more recent Mexican stock.

Canada did not become officially bilingual until the passing of the 'Official Languages Act' in 1969."

You did not read my posting. At the federal level, French has been in official use since 1867. I did not use the term "bilingual" anywhere.

It is true that the Official Languages Acts of 1969 and 1988 and the Constitution Act of 1982 contained the first federally-mandated direction on promoting and preserving the equal status of the two languages nationwide.

But both English and French were being used as official languages in Canada prior to these acts.

There's no argument of course that official French use was originally almost entirely confined to the Federal Government and the Province of Quebec however.

Francophones in other provinces did not always fare too well - though this was often mitigated by the existence of a Roman Catholic separate school system; where numbers permitted, education in French was provided.

Jessica Alba:

""My grandfather was the only Mexican at his college, the only Hispanic person at work and the only one at the all-white country club. He tried to forget his Mexican roots, because he never wanted his kids to be made to feel different in America. He and my grandmother didn't speak Spanish to their children. Now, as a third-generation American, I feel as if I have finally cut loose."

On learning Spanish: 'I have a great accent because I grew up hearing it in the neighbourhood. But I have no idea what I'm saying.'

On growing up in L.A.: 'I never really belonged anywhere. I wasn't white. I was shunned by the Latin community for not being Latin enough. My grandfather was the only one in our family to go to college. He made a choice not to speak Spanish in the house. He didn't want his kids to be different.'

"My whole life, when I was growing up, not one race has ever accepted me. So I never felt connected or attached to any race specifically. I did grow up in a Mexican-American culture, but my mom [who's of French and Danish heritage] was there the whole time. I mean, I had a very American upbringing, I feel American, and I don't speak Spanish. So, to say that I'm a Latin actress, OK, but it's not fitting; it would be insincere. If you're going to look genetically, I'm actually less Latin than Cameron Diaz, whose father is from Cuba. But she's not getting called a Latin actress because she's got blond hair and blue eyes."

"My father is Mexican and very dark; my mother is very fair. I used to always get [script] breakdowns for things like Maria, the janitor's daughter who hangs around with white kids. I was born in the United States. I never thought about it until the industry made me think about being a Latin girl. It seemed like such a bizarre thing." (commenting on racial stereotyping).

<<You did not read my posting.>>

Such would unfortunately appear to be a perennial problem with said poster.

<<There are some pretty old dialects of Spanish in New Mexico, as well as old Spanish land-grants. But NM has never had much of a population -- it's still under 2 million. But the Spanish descendents are mostly in the north -- hispanics in southern NM are mostly of more recent Mexican stock.>>

And I would imagine that, as in California, the European-descended (whether 100% European which would've been almost unheard of, or the mestizos) would've been greatly outnumbered by the indigenous population. If it's anything like what happened in California, then the indigenous would not've adopted Spanish on a widescale as a native language until the late 18th or 19th centuries, anyway. In California, Junípero Serra didn't even arrive and begin the Franciscan missions till 1767-1769 (when the first one was officially founded). It's unlikely the majority of the population residing in current-day California consisted of native Spanish speakers by that point, altho I'm sure the ones who lived at the missions became proficient in it (and in turn their offspring probably were much more likely to speak Spanish at a native level).

Spanish is by far the most studied foreign language in the US. At the high school level, about 2 out of 3 language students study Spanish; in college over half. French is a distant second, and German is an even more distant third. http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/november/USschoollanguages.htm

It is not "required" to know Spanish for most jobs, but it is certainly a help. It's a big plus with jobs dealing with the public (sales, service, real estate, social work, hospitals, police, etc.), and in some areas, dealing with one's own employees. This is obvious not only in the Southwest and Florida, and the big Northern cities, but increasingly in the South and smaller towns.

Perception varies. There are certainly those who see it as a "service-class" language, and race is a factor, but the growing numbers also means increasing numbers and influence of government officials, business people, media people, etc. And as I said in another thread, it's like English elsewhere in the world--almost impossible to avoid. Bilingual signs in many big store chains, a Spanish option when telephoning companies, Spanish versions of most government pamphlets and websites, TV shows, radio, etc. Some Americans resent this, others find it a great opportunity to learn and practice.

As far as varieties, most Americans have trouble with Caribbean accents--too fast, and they "drop" their s's. Mexican Spanish is clearer, although some dislike the "sing-song" quality from certain regions. Colombians, Peruvians, Ecuadorians, and Bolivians also usually sound clear, and Argentinians are probably well received. (Sounds like Italian.) Most Americans aren't exposed enough to Spaniards to have a strong opinion.

Well, in the N. East hispanohablantes prefer to speak spanish and could careless about learning English. Most of the public services which many abuse will have a spanish speaker to further make these recent immigrants reluctant to learn english. They prefer to watch Univision, Telemundo, Telefutura rather than watching programs in english. Most are very confused with regarding their race and consider themselves as "spanish" like spaniards. In NJ where I live most of the hispanics are from the caribbean. Domincans are one of largest communities in this area and most are black/mulattos who think they are indigenous people from the island of hispaniola "taino indians" which died because of harsh treatment from the spanish conquistadores. The dilemma is that on that same island dominicans share it with Haitians who were colonised by the french and are majority blacks and mulattos who defeated Napoleon's greatest fleet. The haitians were even helped the new republic in the 'Americas' United States fend of the British "Savannah Georgia" and caused the french emperor to lose most of his positions in the Americas with the louisiana purchase which was the whole mid-west. But the new republic considered that black republic as a threat and never recognized her independence. Then the second largest hispanic population are colombians who are fleeing a civil war in their homeland. Some are professionals with a better educational background than dominicans and some are whites but the majority are mestizos the rest are mulattos and blacks. The stigma with these group of hispanics are "drug dealers" which in fact has extended their cartel business in the North East. Now a new group of immigrants that are often discriminated against in the East are the mexicans which are mostly indigenous and work for practically nothing. But most of these people are hard workers and best construction workers which are now causing the irish and italian construction workers to lose lots of business. The oldest group of hispanics are Puerto Ricans who are americans. Puerto Rico is known as "common wealth" and enjoy the perks of the union but are often exploited by american corporate businessmen which makes the life of an average puerto rican difficult on the isla and most migrated to the mainland in the 50's predominately NYC and Chicago, NJ. These groups of people are found in all corporate america and public housing. Most can speak english and broken spanish. Then in Union City, NJ we have cubans mostly mulattos/blacks that were discriminated against by the white cubans in Miami that came here after when Castro let many go on their own free will "Marien Boatlift'. But these group of cubans didn't assimilate with the older elite white cubans in Miami and decided to migrate to NJ.

Now we can find Peruvians, Bolivians, Paraguayans most indigenous group of people in S. America in the N. East who trying to make ends meat along with Hundorians, Nicuraguans (Central Americans).

the problem is that americans who are mostly ignorant to other cultures and beyond their borders grouped these different people with the same language but different race, culture and history under one umbrella..."Latino" and perceive all as the same...but we also have recent migrants from Argentina and Chile who mostly european descendants who came to s. america after WWII most are italians or germans. Who are offended with being grouped with the politically correct word "latino" and will often correct americans.


Mi dos centavos..merci bcp. Thus, the bottom line is these group of people are all different and come from high and low social status in their respective countries...

HI
IM CUBAN LIVING IN THE USA, I BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY LONE CAN MAKE YOU FEEL SECOND CLASS CITIZEN IS YOURSELF NO BODY ELSE CAN, BE PROUD AND SECURE OF YOUR SELF AND ROOTS AND JUST DONT CARE WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE BELIEVE

Adam?

Hello?