Pronunciation of 'France'

<I think the Germans' ability to speak English is often dramatically over-stated. I read in an American (I think, or possibly Canadian) travel guide once that practically all Germans you'll meet in the street will speak fluent English.>

LOL very true Candy I suspect many Americans are quite disapointed when they findout the truth LOL. I wonder if the authors of these guides have actually been to Germany? Or have they simply got us confused with our Dutch neighbours again?

<Okay. I've just asked some Scots that I know on another forum how to translate this - >

Is it another English Forum Adam? May I have the address please?

>> If it's a language, there would be a certain way of spelling the words <<

Nonsense. English existed as a language for a long time before spelling was rigorously defined. If you study literature from before the 17th Century (in its original form), you'll find huge variations with spellings.

Johannes — if there are only 500 people in the place where you live, it would probably be more appropriate to call it a 'village', rather than a 'town', at least in British English (no idea what the American English definitions would be). Very funny story, by the way.

I've sometimes found that in Italy, people will usually ask us if we are 'English or German', as though they can somehow tell that we must either be one or the other. Must have something to do with the bad fashion sense, LOL.

<<About East Germans and Russian that was a suprise. Most of my mother's family live in the East and my Grandparents spoke fluent Russian. My consins on the other hand didn't not know a word of Russian but learnt English. >>

Really? Every single person I've met from the former DDR - and I've met dozens- told me they had to learn Russian at school. Most of them learn English too, but it wasn't compulsory at all schools. I guess Russian classes mostly ended circa 1990!

<<British English is the 'Standard' used in German schools though American English (spoken) is popular due to their influence with media exports especially movies and music.>>

But considering that all American shows and films are dubbed (unless people watch them on DVD in the original version), how often do Germans actually hear American English? It may be different for your generation, Johannes, but the people I know prefer British English because it's what they learnt and are familiar with. If my students ask me if they should say 'vacation' or 'holiday' I tell them, say what you like, but 'vacation' is an American word and 'holiday' a British word. 100% of them then say 'holiday'.

LOL Ok a 'village' it shall be LOL. I though the term 'village' was used to call small towns back in the medieval times. I myself only heard this term used in English folk tales and medieval themed movies.

Thanks for the correction.

And to give a more contempory example... Luxembourgish didn't have a 'correct' spelling system until about 20 years ago, thus it was the case until the 1980s that Luxembourgers could spell their language more or less as they wanted. Flexible spelling systems are common with languages which are spoken, but rarely written. In Scots-speaking communities, it is the norm to speak in Scots but revert to English in writing. Likewise, in Luxembourgish-speaking communities, it is the norm to speak in Luxembourgish, but revert to either French or German in writing.

<But considering that all American shows and films are dubbed (unless people watch them on DVD in the original version), how often do Germans actually hear American English?>

mmm I think you are right. I imagined American actors speaking with dubbed on British accents when you said that. But I later realised you might be referring to that though they use the same actor's voice they would replace unknown American terms with British ones. In effect creating a different movie for British and commonwealth viewers?

And I correct?

I meant that the vast majority of Germans watch TV and films in German, not English, because unless they have a DVD player, when do Germans ever have the chance to watch anything in English - American or otherwise? (Except MTV)

<I meant that the vast majority of Germans watch TV and films in German, not English, because unless they have a DVD player, when do Germans ever have the chance to watch anything in English - American or otherwise? (Except MTV) >

LOL except MTV that what first popped in my head. I seen English programmes on Deutche Welle (DWTV). Though the English cast is mostly British there are a couple of Americans and an Australian on DWTV. The main purpose is not to teach English to it's home audience but to gain a international audience such as BBC has done.

<Really? Every single person I've met from the former DDR - and I've met dozens- told me they had to learn Russian at school. Most of them learn English too, but it wasn't compulsory at all schools. I guess Russian classes mostly ended circa 1990!>

LOL Well I was born a year after when the DDR and BDR united. Most of my cousins from the east was also born after the unification as well. Russian over night was thrown out the window and replaced with the Western system of education replacing Russian as the preferred language with English or French.

No, "village" is still very much in use, Johannes! In the US there is no "official" definition of a village, population-wise, but some very small towns will designate themselves as such -- when you enter the small community of Cloudcroft for instance, about 2 hours' drive from me, the sign says "Village of Cloudcroft".

<<LOL Well I was born a year after when the DDR and BDR united.>>

LOL! That's what I thought after I posted the message - we're talking about different generations here! ;)

I have a new student, who's 47 and hasn't spoken English for 30 years (he's surprisingly fluent, though). His daughter is 15 and very interested in/good at/fluent in American English....that's the difference, I guess!

<No, "village" is still very much in use, Johannes! In the US there is no "official" definition of a village, population-wise, but some very small towns will designate themselves as such -- when you enter the small community of Cloudcroft for instance, about 2 hours' drive from me, the sign says "Village of Cloudcroft".>

I must get that picture of medieval style houses with grass roofs, farms, monks with brown rodes, etc. out of my head.

It's going to need a good couple of days to work that out of my head.

>> No, "village" is still very much in use, Johannes! In the US there is no "official" definition of a village, population-wise, but some very small towns will designate themselves as such -- when you enter the small community of Cloudcroft for instance, about 2 hours' drive from me, the sign says "Village of Cloudcroft". <<

We don't actually have an official definition of a 'village' in Britain either. I think that the only definition of that type which we have is that a city must have a cathedral and/or a university. But 'village' tends to be used here for any small place perhaps with, say, fewer than about 3,000 people.

Another word (which may or may not exist in American English) would be 'hamlet' — basically a very small village with perhaps only about 20 houses or fewer.

Candy, you mentioned that you teach English in Germany. This touches upon a question I've been meaning to ask. I was originally going to ask it as part of a new topic but since you mentioned you teach ESL in this topic, I'll just go ahead and ask.

When teaching British ESL in a foreign country (especially in continental Europe) is RP an appropriate accent to use? I've already read in another forum that most English teachers in British state schools do not use RP when teaching English (not ESL) to native speakers. My question, however, concerns teaching ESL to foreign students in a foreign country.

Also, if RP is not to be used then what IS to be used in its place? Personally, I think RP should be the "main" accent used but I also think that foreign students should be exposed to other regional accents (both UK and US) so that they will more easily be able to understand people when travelling to or studying in an English speaking country. Of course, you cannot keep changing accents when teaching ESL (except briefly for demonstrative purposes) but the audio materials that accompany any ESL programme should contain some examples of regional accents, in addition to RP.

I've been thinking about teaching ESL in Greece on the side. My grammar is excellent, my vocabulary is rich and colourful, and I even have a nice RP accent. The only problem is that the salary is deplorable. Are the salaries any better in Germany? Do you think that there is ANY chance that I would be able to secure employment teachimg ESL in the UK? I've been told by many Britons that my English is exemplary. (You've probably already read that). In spite of that, I think that most UK schools would be hesitant to hire a "non-Brit" regardless of how nice he/she sound. Of course, I could be wrong.

Any advice or information would be gladly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your kind responses.