Thanks for understanding that Joey.
What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?
The point is that even if there are over 200 millions speakers of Portuguese, it's not considered that important to be studied worldwide (except for personal interest) as no "really advanced" country has it as native language. Money is what matters.
It's the same reason why Chinese is becoming so important as of late: because of its economic boom.
It's the same reason why Chinese is becoming so important as of late: because of its economic boom.
Then why are so many people worldwide eagerly learning Portuguese Dani??? Personal interest? Maybe some. The vast majority are learning Portuguese because they see the practical and economic advantage of knowing it. Why are some of you having such a hard time getting this?
And Dani...the United States and Brazil are strong trading partners. How much more of an 'economically advanced' country do you want than the USA?? Yes, American business people do see the Portuguese language as an assest to have. Do I have to explain why?
Oh, one more thing I think you missed in the long article Dani. China, which is a major economic world power, has strong trade relations with Angola, a Portuguese speaking country, by the way.
<<Northern-mexican spanish sounds a bit sluggish and a tiresome pronunciation....Expecially in Sonora, Tijuana, Mexicali, Tamulipas, etc. >>
Well, then that's how I sound. And it doesn't sound sluggish at all to me.
*Yucatan & Chiapas* et al.
Southern-mexican spanish (chiapas, yucatan, oaxaca, etc) have an indigenous intonation and words.
YES. I noticed that big time.
And I have trouble understanding people from the southwest.
Well, then that's how I sound. And it doesn't sound sluggish at all to me.
*Yucatan & Chiapas* et al.
Southern-mexican spanish (chiapas, yucatan, oaxaca, etc) have an indigenous intonation and words.
YES. I noticed that big time.
And I have trouble understanding people from the southwest.
Yes, the Portuguese and Spaniards and Italians and southern Frenchmen are all very closely related people. For the most part, you can't really discern a difference between them in appearance. Only that, generally speaking, the farther north you go, the less "mediterranean" they appear, and the more Celtic, w/ some Germanic.
Arabs had very little impact on the genetic heritage of Iberia. Very little. All genetic studies are unanimous with the results, which clearly shows that Arab, or North African genetic contribution amounts to no more than 2% of Iberian people's heritage. The Germanic component, in the north primarily, is at roughly speaking, 12%. The dominant genetic contributions of the people of the north of Iberia are Mediterranean/Celtic, while in the south, it is primarily Mediterranean (shorter stature, swarthy skin, dark hair and eyes, etc). The French are mainly a Celtic/Mediterranean hybrid, with a Germanic component contributing 8-10% of their genetic heritage, with the farther south you go, the more Mediterranean the phenotype is, while the farther north you go, the more Celtic their phenotype becomes (light skin, brown hair).
Arabs had very little impact on the genetic heritage of Iberia. Very little. All genetic studies are unanimous with the results, which clearly shows that Arab, or North African genetic contribution amounts to no more than 2% of Iberian people's heritage. The Germanic component, in the north primarily, is at roughly speaking, 12%. The dominant genetic contributions of the people of the north of Iberia are Mediterranean/Celtic, while in the south, it is primarily Mediterranean (shorter stature, swarthy skin, dark hair and eyes, etc). The French are mainly a Celtic/Mediterranean hybrid, with a Germanic component contributing 8-10% of their genetic heritage, with the farther south you go, the more Mediterranean the phenotype is, while the farther north you go, the more Celtic their phenotype becomes (light skin, brown hair).
The Arabs, properly, the Moors, DID have a significant impact on the genetic heritage of the Iberians - especially the SOUTHERN Iberians. You can see it in their faces. Just go to the south of Portugal and Spain....the people look so undeniably Arabic, Moroccan, Tunisian, Libyan etc. Portuguese people from Lisbon, and south to the Algarve, (which itself means 'the country of the west' derived from the Arabic 'Al-Gharb) are often mistaken for Arabs (or middle-eastern) when they travel abroad. I myself am often mistaken for Arabic.
And Arabic also had a significant influence on the Portuguese and Spanish languages - almost 1000 words of Arabic origin in Portuguese, and about 1200 in Spanish. Don't forget that for many hundreds of years the language of southern Iberia was 'Mozarabic'. This did not happen to the French and Italian languages.
An often used common word for 'God willing' in Portuguese is 'oxala' and in Spanish 'ojala' - both derived from the Arabic word with the same meaning, which Arabs always use. In Arabic it is 'inshala = God willing'. It is often these words of Arabic origin which the Italians and French don't understand, but the Portguese and Spanish speakers understand these words among themselves. A good example is 'Aldeia' in Portuguese, and 'Aldea' in Spanish, which derived from the Arabic 'Aldaya' meaning a small, rural village.
And Arabic also had a significant influence on the Portuguese and Spanish languages - almost 1000 words of Arabic origin in Portuguese, and about 1200 in Spanish. Don't forget that for many hundreds of years the language of southern Iberia was 'Mozarabic'. This did not happen to the French and Italian languages.
An often used common word for 'God willing' in Portuguese is 'oxala' and in Spanish 'ojala' - both derived from the Arabic word with the same meaning, which Arabs always use. In Arabic it is 'inshala = God willing'. It is often these words of Arabic origin which the Italians and French don't understand, but the Portguese and Spanish speakers understand these words among themselves. A good example is 'Aldeia' in Portuguese, and 'Aldea' in Spanish, which derived from the Arabic 'Aldaya' meaning a small, rural village.
"Villa" is used quite a bit in Spanish. At least here it is.
Franciso,
Iberians do not look any more "Middle Eastern" than do southern Italians or Sicilians. It's just that many people sterotype the European look, and think of it only as being light featured. Many southern Europeans are mistaken for Arabs because of their olive complexion, and other dark features. The reality is, that is just how Mediterranean Europeans naturally look, that is those who are relatively unmixed with Celtic or Germanic peoples, such as in the far south of Spain and Italy. Genetics doesn't lie, and it is one of the paradoxes of history. Even people of Andalucia, the historic heartland of Arab Spain, show virtually no trace of Arab genetic contributions, by way of genetic studies (their DNA). As I've said, genetic studies show that even in Al-Andalus, the North African/Middle Eastern genetic contribution to the Iberians only amounts to around 2% of their genetic makeup, which is not nearly enough to affect their phenotype. You must remember that when the Moors conquered Spain, they did not come en-masse as whole nations the way the Germanic barbarians did, with their wives and families. They only came for the most part as administrators. Most of their descendants were then exiled from Spain after the Christian reconquista. They didn't mix much with the local populace, as Arabs lived among Christians, and if they married Iberian woman, their children would have Muslims, which means that their descendants would have been Muslim, and therefore killed, or exiled from Spain during the Inquisition. The Arabs were basically religiously tolerant, unlike the Christians, who either killed or exiled all Muslims once they gained the upper hand. And besides, to began with, it is estimated that the Moors never amounted to more than 5% of the population of Iberia, which is even less than the Germanic peoples.
The Arabs left their imprint on the languages of Iberia, and in the form of some cultural traits, clothing styles, and architecture, which all influenced Iberian ways of life. Spanish and Portuguese share many words that French and Italian do not, because of Arabic loan words.
Franciso,
Iberians do not look any more "Middle Eastern" than do southern Italians or Sicilians. It's just that many people sterotype the European look, and think of it only as being light featured. Many southern Europeans are mistaken for Arabs because of their olive complexion, and other dark features. The reality is, that is just how Mediterranean Europeans naturally look, that is those who are relatively unmixed with Celtic or Germanic peoples, such as in the far south of Spain and Italy. Genetics doesn't lie, and it is one of the paradoxes of history. Even people of Andalucia, the historic heartland of Arab Spain, show virtually no trace of Arab genetic contributions, by way of genetic studies (their DNA). As I've said, genetic studies show that even in Al-Andalus, the North African/Middle Eastern genetic contribution to the Iberians only amounts to around 2% of their genetic makeup, which is not nearly enough to affect their phenotype. You must remember that when the Moors conquered Spain, they did not come en-masse as whole nations the way the Germanic barbarians did, with their wives and families. They only came for the most part as administrators. Most of their descendants were then exiled from Spain after the Christian reconquista. They didn't mix much with the local populace, as Arabs lived among Christians, and if they married Iberian woman, their children would have Muslims, which means that their descendants would have been Muslim, and therefore killed, or exiled from Spain during the Inquisition. The Arabs were basically religiously tolerant, unlike the Christians, who either killed or exiled all Muslims once they gained the upper hand. And besides, to began with, it is estimated that the Moors never amounted to more than 5% of the population of Iberia, which is even less than the Germanic peoples.
The Arabs left their imprint on the languages of Iberia, and in the form of some cultural traits, clothing styles, and architecture, which all influenced Iberian ways of life. Spanish and Portuguese share many words that French and Italian do not, because of Arabic loan words.
All this talk of Italian being the language of this and that...What are Spanish and French the languages of?
Hey Josue,
We have the same name! Well, at least that's what my grandparents call me. I go by the English version here in the U.S., "Josh".
We have the same name! Well, at least that's what my grandparents call me. I go by the English version here in the U.S., "Josh".
Ricardo Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:31 am GMT
««of course it is more than silly, it is something that should be looked at...
I live in the US now, and I find it very confusing and ignorant, that when I have to fill out a form, Hispanic is an option...
Hispanic just means that you are from a spanish/portugese speaking country.»»
The USA definition of Hispanic is different than the European, while you are in the USA it is their definition that you have to use:
The O.M.B. text that defines Hispanic or Latino:
“Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central
American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, “Spanish
origin,” can be used in addition to “Hispanic or Latino.””
You can read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_(U.S._Census)
In Europe (Portugal and Spain) Hispanic does not refer to Portuguese speaking countries as you wrote.
Hispanics, in the historical sense, are the ancestor of the Portuguese and Spanish people, so Portuguese and Spanish are the descendents of the Hispanicus.
In Portugal Hispanico refers only to the people of the Iberian peninsula.
Whenever you refer to the Spanish language you say that Spanish are Hispanics or Hispano. You have the Hispanophone counties.
When you refer to the Portuguese people you say that they are Lusitan or Luso when it refers to the language you say that Portuguese speakers are Lusophone
That is why you have the Lusophone countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanic
These are the adopted conventions and Portuguese can adopt many names ( as Spanish people can too) :
Bracari, Callaeci, Celtici , Grovii, Turodi, Suevi Visigoths etc etc etc that is if we do not follow any agreed convention.
So if anyone says that Portuguese speakers are Hispanics I can always reply that Portuguese speakers are Visigothic or Celtici or any other people that the Portuguese people descend of.
««of course it is more than silly, it is something that should be looked at...
I live in the US now, and I find it very confusing and ignorant, that when I have to fill out a form, Hispanic is an option...
Hispanic just means that you are from a spanish/portugese speaking country.»»
The USA definition of Hispanic is different than the European, while you are in the USA it is their definition that you have to use:
The O.M.B. text that defines Hispanic or Latino:
“Hispanic or Latino. A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central
American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. The term, “Spanish
origin,” can be used in addition to “Hispanic or Latino.””
You can read more here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_(U.S._Census)
In Europe (Portugal and Spain) Hispanic does not refer to Portuguese speaking countries as you wrote.
Hispanics, in the historical sense, are the ancestor of the Portuguese and Spanish people, so Portuguese and Spanish are the descendents of the Hispanicus.
In Portugal Hispanico refers only to the people of the Iberian peninsula.
Whenever you refer to the Spanish language you say that Spanish are Hispanics or Hispano. You have the Hispanophone counties.
When you refer to the Portuguese people you say that they are Lusitan or Luso when it refers to the language you say that Portuguese speakers are Lusophone
That is why you have the Lusophone countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanic
These are the adopted conventions and Portuguese can adopt many names ( as Spanish people can too) :
Bracari, Callaeci, Celtici , Grovii, Turodi, Suevi Visigoths etc etc etc that is if we do not follow any agreed convention.
So if anyone says that Portuguese speakers are Hispanics I can always reply that Portuguese speakers are Visigothic or Celtici or any other people that the Portuguese people descend of.
Francisco Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:03 pm GMT
««The Arabs, properly, the Moors, DID have a significant impact on the genetic heritage of the Iberians - especially the SOUTHERN Iberians. You can see it in their faces. Just go to the south of Portugal and Spain....the people look so undeniably Arabic, Moroccan, Tunisian, Libyan etc. Portuguese people from Lisbon, and south to the Algarve, (which itself means 'the country of the west' derived from the Arabic 'Al-Gharb) are often mistaken for Arabs (or middle-eastern) when they travel abroad. I myself am often mistaken for Arabic. »»
No I never heard that the Portuguese people from Lisbon or Algarve were mistaken by Arabs. You must dress like an Arab to be mistaken for one or have an Arabic name.
You just forget that North Africa was also part of the Roman empire and the Vandals had an empire in North Africa.
You know that it was usual for moorish pirates to capture people from small villages near the sea along the European coast untill much after the Reconquista?
You know that many blue/green eyed or read/blond hair can be seen among berber tribes:
««Besides, the language of the sea-ports in that part of the world was Arabic, which is entirely different to the native Berber tongue known as "Shluh" . The explanation may lie in the following extraordinary statement which was made by Colonel W.G. Macpherson of the Army Medical Corps. ........ "When I was in Morocco City in 1891. I met a Gaelic-speaking missionary doctor who had come out there and went into the interior, where Shluh is the language spoken in the Sous country, just as it is the language of the Cis-Atlas country. He told me that the words seemed familiar to him, and after listening to the natives speaking among themselves found they were speaking a Gaelic dialect, much of which he could follow. The medical missionary told me he recognized the Shluh language as Celtic. Although he had no previous knowledge of it, and had no conception of its being allied to Gaelic, he found himself able to understand much of what was being said the first time he went among the tribes, solely on account of the resemblance of they language to his own Gaelic. This confirmed my own observations regarding the names of the Berber tribes, I myself, had come across, namely, the Beni M'Tir, the Beni M'Touga and the Beni M'Ghill is simply the Arabic for 'children of' and is tacked on by the Arabs to the M' of the Berbers which means 'sons of', and is exactly the same as the Gaelic Mac or Mc. Hence the M'Tir, M'Touga and M'Ghill become in our country MacTiers, MacDougalls and MacGills."»»
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/online/berbers.htm
««And Arabic also had a significant influence on the Portuguese and Spanish languages - almost 1000 words of Arabic origin in Portuguese, and about 1200 in Spanish. Don't forget that for many hundreds of years the language of southern Iberia was 'Mozarabic'.»»
Arabic has also a significant impact in the English language as English has also 100 Arabic words. The Spanish language has about 5000 Arabic words not 1200.
Mozarabic was not an Arabic language but the Romance language spoken by the non Moorish populatin in Al Andaluz.
Mozarabic was a Latin language that used the Arabic writing.
The Mozarabs were not Arabs (in Spanish, mozárabes; in Portuguese, moçárabes)they were Iberian Christians living under Muslim dominion, and their descendants.
It was prohibited the marriage between a Muslim woman and Dhimmi man ( non Muslim man living under Muslim rule) and you could pay with your life if you tried.
LAA :
Can you tell what was the contribution of the Sarmatian Alans to the genetic make up of Iberian peninsula population? It seems it is also high.
That way Portuguese and Spanish people have the face of many tribes.
««The Arabs, properly, the Moors, DID have a significant impact on the genetic heritage of the Iberians - especially the SOUTHERN Iberians. You can see it in their faces. Just go to the south of Portugal and Spain....the people look so undeniably Arabic, Moroccan, Tunisian, Libyan etc. Portuguese people from Lisbon, and south to the Algarve, (which itself means 'the country of the west' derived from the Arabic 'Al-Gharb) are often mistaken for Arabs (or middle-eastern) when they travel abroad. I myself am often mistaken for Arabic. »»
No I never heard that the Portuguese people from Lisbon or Algarve were mistaken by Arabs. You must dress like an Arab to be mistaken for one or have an Arabic name.
You just forget that North Africa was also part of the Roman empire and the Vandals had an empire in North Africa.
You know that it was usual for moorish pirates to capture people from small villages near the sea along the European coast untill much after the Reconquista?
You know that many blue/green eyed or read/blond hair can be seen among berber tribes:
««Besides, the language of the sea-ports in that part of the world was Arabic, which is entirely different to the native Berber tongue known as "Shluh" . The explanation may lie in the following extraordinary statement which was made by Colonel W.G. Macpherson of the Army Medical Corps. ........ "When I was in Morocco City in 1891. I met a Gaelic-speaking missionary doctor who had come out there and went into the interior, where Shluh is the language spoken in the Sous country, just as it is the language of the Cis-Atlas country. He told me that the words seemed familiar to him, and after listening to the natives speaking among themselves found they were speaking a Gaelic dialect, much of which he could follow. The medical missionary told me he recognized the Shluh language as Celtic. Although he had no previous knowledge of it, and had no conception of its being allied to Gaelic, he found himself able to understand much of what was being said the first time he went among the tribes, solely on account of the resemblance of they language to his own Gaelic. This confirmed my own observations regarding the names of the Berber tribes, I myself, had come across, namely, the Beni M'Tir, the Beni M'Touga and the Beni M'Ghill is simply the Arabic for 'children of' and is tacked on by the Arabs to the M' of the Berbers which means 'sons of', and is exactly the same as the Gaelic Mac or Mc. Hence the M'Tir, M'Touga and M'Ghill become in our country MacTiers, MacDougalls and MacGills."»»
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/online/berbers.htm
««And Arabic also had a significant influence on the Portuguese and Spanish languages - almost 1000 words of Arabic origin in Portuguese, and about 1200 in Spanish. Don't forget that for many hundreds of years the language of southern Iberia was 'Mozarabic'.»»
Arabic has also a significant impact in the English language as English has also 100 Arabic words. The Spanish language has about 5000 Arabic words not 1200.
Mozarabic was not an Arabic language but the Romance language spoken by the non Moorish populatin in Al Andaluz.
Mozarabic was a Latin language that used the Arabic writing.
The Mozarabs were not Arabs (in Spanish, mozárabes; in Portuguese, moçárabes)they were Iberian Christians living under Muslim dominion, and their descendants.
It was prohibited the marriage between a Muslim woman and Dhimmi man ( non Muslim man living under Muslim rule) and you could pay with your life if you tried.
LAA :
Can you tell what was the contribution of the Sarmatian Alans to the genetic make up of Iberian peninsula population? It seems it is also high.
That way Portuguese and Spanish people have the face of many tribes.