What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?

Brennus   Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:15 am GMT
Renato,

Watch the language.

Thank you

Brennus - Moderator
Gringo   Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:12 am GMT
Renato Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:47 am GMT
««Gringo, I don't know where you got this info from, but in the USA, brazilians are NOT considered hispanic. Being that I work very closely with the us immigration, brazilians don not fall under the hispanic category, and somehow they fall under "white", to show how great the system is..lol. »»

What info are you talking about?
You mean Brazilians are a race?
What is a hispanic category? Are hispanics synonym of not white?
I do not know how Brazilians, or anyone else, falls under what racial category based on the nationality.

««Another thing, just to show how bad this is, If you go to the University of Pittsburgh, Portuguese is under a hispanic language. That's how great the language teaching system is in this country.»»

The UP does not follow the USA cultural definition of Hispanic but, up to a certain point, the historical one. They refer to Hispanic as related to the Roman province Hispania and the Celt-Iberian Roman subjects. As the definition of Hispanic, in the USA, has changed I suppose you can say they are wrong.

The same way "goth" can lead to confusion:

1 : a member of a Germanic people that overran the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era
2 often not capitalized a : rock music marked by dark and morbid lyrics b : a fan or performer of goth
3 : a person who wears mostly black clothing, uses dark dramatic makeup, and often has dyed black hair.

Not to forget the gothic style in architecture and the Visigothic script:

"Visigothic script was a type of medieval script, so called because it originated in the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. It is also called littera toletana or littera mozarabica."

The later name of Hispania was Visigotia.
Gringo   Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:19 am GMT
"Visigothic script was a type of medieval script, so called because it originated in the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. It is also called littera toletana or littera mozarabica." Wikipedia
I hate spam   Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:39 pm GMT
Gringo,
I don't know how many Visigoths settled in your end of Hispania, but can you think of a few words in Portuguese of Gothic origin?
Gringo   Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:34 pm GMT
I hate spam:

I do not know what you mean with that comment because the Visigoths adopted the Roman culture but they did not become Roman.

You know how many Romans settled in Hispania?

When Hispania was conquered the land and the people became Romans. When Hispania became Visigotia the land and the people became Visigoths.

Otherwise you mean that Texans and Californians are Mexican ? Or native Americans?

Try to explain why the Basque people, the Galician, the Catalan are Spanish. They also have their own language and culture.

There are very few Gothic words but some are still spoken:

Portuguese- Gothic
Agasalho - gasalja
Albergue -*haribergo
Aleive - lavjan
Alverque-haribergo
Elmo-hilms
Escanção-skankja
Esquila-skilla
Estaca-stakka
Fona-fon
Fornir-frumjan
Guerra-*wirro
Guia - *wida
Lasca -laska
Laverca -*laiwerko
Luva-*glova
Marta - marthus
Roca - ruka
Tampa - tappa
Tiufado-taihunda
LAA   Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:12 pm GMT
<<When Hispania was conquered the land and the people became Romans. When Hispania became Visigotia the land and the people became Visigoths. >>

Hispano-Romans did not become Visigoths. There is a Gothic genetic strain in modern Spaniards and Portuguese, as is evident by some people's phenotypes, particularly in the north. But, culturally and linguistically, it was the Visigoths (the minority) who were absorbed by the Iberans, not the other way around. The Visigoths became Catholics, and adopted Latin culture and language. They created a political kingdom, and they significantly changed social structure, with their "thanes" becoming the new nobility, or knightly class of warriors and landowners in the dark and middle ages. But they were Hispanicized, culturally and linguistically. There were about 200,000 Visigoths, and about 3 million Hispano-Romans, or Iberians.

By the way, the "I hate Spam" poster was me. I put that in the name box by accident.
Renato   Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:34 pm GMT
Gringo, I was refering to immigration, the categories they have when they ask your ethinicity.

White?
African American?
Hispanic?
Asian
Other?
JR   Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:40 pm GMT
In the forms I have seen, Hispanic is considered an Ethnicity, which goes next to such categories as "Eskimo/Alaska Native" and "Native Pacific Islander".

Under race, there is only three options
Caucasian/White, Negroid/Black, Mongoloid/Asian. Hispanics go into Caucasian for the most part. It's logical to think Brazilians would to.

Although there's the contradiction of Hispanics of mostly Indian, if not completley Indian, blood.

"Why do ppl gotta always label everyone"
Sergio   Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:58 pm GMT
Hi Renato,

My experience is that Spanish speakers normally DO like Portuguese, especially the Brazillian one, because of the exposure to this language in Latinamerica.

My experience is that Portuguese speakers, especially Brazillian ones, like the Spanish language, and generally speaking, there is a good relationship between both languages, at least in Latinamerica.

I can understand that you find the Mexican Spanish ugly. Can you tell me from which region? Mexican Spanish is the same case as any variant of any language: depending on the region, the spectrum can go from sounding ridiculous, to ugly, to neutral, to beautiful. This is also true of the Brazillian Portuguese. I am not interested in convincing you that Mexican Spanish is not ugly, because I don't know your experiences with this language, I am just trying to understand your opinion on this.
JGreco   Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:08 am GMT
Hey Renato that kind of saddens me because I come from a Brasilian/Panamanian family and they don't hate each other. I do not think your an expert on what all American Castellano speakers and a matter of fact many of them like Br. Portuguese and are fascenated by the spound of it. Your opinion breeds negativity. The same type that some on the Castellano speaking side of this forum have which is not a common opinion in Castellano speaking Latin America. I speak because I am a person from both sides of the language discussion (castellano/Eu.Portuguese.
loala   Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:48 am GMT
YEAH THE SPANISH SPOKEN IN MADRID IS INCREDIBLE FAST. THEY SPEAK IF THEY WERE IN A RUSH AND IT CAN BE ANNOYING TOO.
I don't know how can someone learn Spanish over there
helene   Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:54 am GMT
Ils PARLENT VITE
Gringo   Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:29 am GMT
««Hispano-Romans did not become Visigoths. There is a Gothic genetic strain in modern Spaniards and Portuguese, as is evident by some people's phenotypes, particularly in the north.»»

What do you mean by Visigoth, a genetic strain, a culture? What genetic strain is that you are referring ?

The Goths are thought to have originated in Scandinavia (Scandza) (Sweden).

They moved to a place they called Gothiscandza [thought to be in north Poland probably mixing with some of the local people from the former Oksywie culture]. The Goth at this time are related to the Willenberg/Wielbark culture that was identified in this area.

Probably during the 2nd century they moved to Oium [ Ukraine], they seemed to have mixed with the population of the Zarubintsy culture forming the the Sântana de Mureş culture/ Chernyakhov Culture that was extended to Dacia [Romania].
The former Zarubintsy culture is thought to be a mixture of people of Celtic La Tène culture, Scythians and Sarmatians.


This was before the Goth entered the Roman Empire. As you can notice as they migrated they mixed with the local population that they probably subjugated, and their population numbers grew.

The people of the Visigoth Kingdom were Visigoths not Romans, Romans were the subjects of Rome. The Visigoth and the former hispano-Roman population were not allowed to marry until Reccared became Catholic. That is when the ethic misture happened but even before they were Visigoth subjects. Catholicism was not a religion of Roman origin.




You do not seem to understand that people were mixed at this time , many of these tribes were a federation of different tribes and there were tribes that changed their name for whatever reason.

The Visigoth in Hispania adopted the Roman culture but also changed the local culture with their Visigothic construction style e.g. in some churches and Visigothic cemeteries. (You also had the Visigothic/ mozarabic rite that was different from the Roman.)


««But they were Hispanicized, culturally and linguistically. »»

This is a new thing. I did not know there was a Hispanic language at this time. Were they Hispanicised or Romanised? Have you got the notion that when the Visigoth arrived in the Iberian Peninsula they were already Romanised?

The Visigoth kingdom of Toulouse rings a bell? Before they settled in Hispania they were given lands in Gallia Aquitania.


««There were about 200,000 Visigoths, and about 3 million Hispano-Romans, or Iberians. »»

Are you counting with the non-people, the "speaking tools, or salves? They were 40% of the Roman (in Rome) population at one time, when free they would become Roman citizens. You think there was not a slave population in Hispania? You think the Visigoth did not have slaves?

How many Romans (from Rome) you think that settled in Hispania?


Explain to me what you are: Are you American or Mexican? Or Spanish?
Gringo   Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:33 am GMT
Explain to me what you are: Are you American or Mexican? Or Spanish?

I am asking you this to understand what is your notion of belonging to a culture, or nationality.
Gringo   Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:40 am GMT
Renato

««Gringo, I was refering to immigration, the categories they have when they ask your ethinicity.

White?
African American?
Hispanic?
Asian
Other? »»

This is a N. American way of categorising people. People answer what they want and think they are.

An Hispanic can have more than one categorie e.g. Hispanic and White.

If you do not like it you can answer "Other".

I asked you what was this information you wrote on your post:
««Gringo, I don't know where you got this info from, »

I never said the Brazilians were Hispanics or considered Hispanics. So, tell me what is the information you are talking about.