Do you like Brazilian Portuguese?
quote
[Brazilians settle in the Portuguese communities and identify with the Portuguese in many ways.]
Mariana, we Brazilians don't identify ourselves with Portuguese, just like Americans don't identify themselves with British. Grow up. We're an idependent nation and we don't wanna hear about Portugal anymore. Tchau!
Pra tu Mariana, eu lhe dedico a músga BOLADONA de nossa cantora Taty:
tá fazeno muito sucesso por aqui, por sinal
BOLADONA
sentada na esquina.
Esperando tu passar
altas horas da matina
Com o esquema todo armado,
esperando tu chegar
pra balançar o seu coreto
pra você de mim lembrar
Sou cachorra sou gatinha não adianta se esquivar
vou soltar a minha fera eu boto o bicho pra pegar
Sou cachorra sou gatinha não adianta se esquivar
vou soltar a minha fera eu boto o bicho pra pegar
Boladona ...
Espero que tu curta.
<<Mariana, we Brazilians don't identify ourselves with Portuguese, just like Americans don't identify themselves with British. Grow up. We're an idependent nation and we don't wanna hear about Portugal anymore. Tchau!>>
The big difference is that Americans don't have an irrational hatred of the British and in many cases, we admire the accent. We acknowledge that we speak the same language. I also think we do identify with the British in some ways. Many Americans have British heritage (including myself).
Ana Kraudia wrote
»»Mariana, we Brazilians don't identify ourselves with Portuguese, just like Americans don't identify themselves with British. Grow up. We're an idependent nation and we don't wanna hear about Portugal anymore. Tchau! »»
Sorry Ana. Here, where I live, there is a large Brazilian community and a large Portuguese community. We share the same space and we interact a lot. Most Brazilians I know identify with the Portuguese HERE. Most of them [Brazilians] are from Portuguese background. They know where their family came from in Portugal. They like to talk abou that. They like to talk about all we have in common, which is a lot. Portuguese and Brazilians here are intermarrying. The list goes on and on. Yet there are a few like you who distance themseves from the Portuguese here. That is a fact.
For your information, the majority of American cicitzens are still from English extraction. We call them the "Anglos". They are the majority. They identify with all which is English. Our national public television here features many BBC programs that are very popular because they appeal to the majority the "Anglos". Our national public radio broadcasts news programs tottally produced in the UK. Travelling from the USA to the UK and vice versa is intense. The "Anglos" keep the English language and the English traditions alive. They also keep their religious traditions, for instance, the "Anglo" christmas. The list goes on. The rest of us may recent it, but we don't deny it. We accpet it as a fact.
At the political and diplomatic level. The USA and the UK are twin countries. They sick together in war and peace. They LOVE and support each other because they have so much in common and they identify with each other.
Ana. Shame on you. Grow up. Portugal is under your skin. There is nothing under the sun that you can do about that. Portugal and the Portuguese left an undeniable inprint on Brazil, including a mark on you.
The history, the language, the culture, the literature, the music, the food, the architecture. Even your attitude of self-hatrated is very Portuguese. Your compulsion to blame your problems on others is very Portuguese. Your attitude of admiration for those you perceive as being superior is very Portuguese. The Portuguese suffer from the same sindromes. They even blame the independence of Brazil for their demise as a world colonial power, which, actually, is an historic fact.
It is OK to be resentful it if you are in the minority. But don't deny it. It is not smart. We both speak the language of Camoes and Jorge Amado. Accept it. It is a wonderful language. It is a fact.
Mariana wrote:
“attitude of self-hatrated is very Portuguese. Your compulsion to blame your problems on others is very Portuguese. Your attitude of admiration for those you perceive as being superior is very Portuguese. The Portuguese suffer from the same sindromes. They even blame the independence of Brazil for their demise as a world colonial power, which, actually, is an historic fact.”
Where did you learn this? Portuguese have "Self hatred and compulsion to blame others"? Never saw it.
The attitude of admiration for those perceived as being superior is common of very old people because they live still in the past.
No one that I know blames the independence of Brazil for anything. No one learns that in school, and it was our king D. João VI who made Brazil a kingdom and our king D. Pedro IV who made it independent. Portugal had other important colonies.
The Portuguese are used as the all-purpose scapegoat by Brazilians for their problems that is why many Brazilians do not want to have links with the Portuguese culture or pretend that they do no understand Eu. Portuguese, and that has been happening for quite a long time. It did not start last year or ten years ago it is deeply rooted in Brazilian society it can not be seen as being just a fashion or the believe of just a few radical minds.
Of course there are many Brazilians who can understand that the image made of the Portuguese has nothing to do with the people from Portugal but most cannot. People believe in what they were taught.
It is a social problem and has to be understood as such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat#Scapegoating
Alison wrote
»»No one that I know blames the independence of Brazil for anything. No one learns that in school, and it was our king D. João VI who made Brazil a kingdom and our king D. Pedro IV who made it independent. Portugal had other important colonies««
Fact:
Em vez de uma perspectiva de "emancipação brasileira", os efeitos da instalação da Corte joanina no Rio de Janeiro podem ser focalizados pelo ângulo da crise que provocou em Portugal. Nesse sentido, o historiador português José Hermano Saraiva (2001, p. 274) sintetizou:
O Brasil constituía então uma base essencial da economia portuguesa. A nossa exportação era quase toda (exceptuando o vinho do Porto) canalizada para os portos brasileiros; a nossa importação vinha quase toda do Brasil; as matérias-primas tropicais faziam escala em Lisboa e daqui eram reexportadas para o exterior. Todo comércio dependia desse sistema e desse tráfico vivia a marinha mercante. A emancipação econômica do Brasil teve portanto conseqüências graves na economia portuguesa. A antiga colônia passara, em poucos anos, de fonte de rendimento a fonte de despesa. Muitos dos nobres instalados na corte do Rio viviam à custa dos bens que possuíam em Portugal.
Assim, a política joanina de romper antigas subordinações do Brasil em relação à Metrópole provocou crises em Portugal. Em razão das contradições entre Colônia e Metrópole, as medidas que "libertavam" o Brasil desse sistema de exploração colonial "sufocavam", em contrapartida, Portugal.
Gilberto Cotrim. Professor de História pela USP. Mestre em Educação e História da Cultura pela Universidade Mackenzie. Autor de História Global pela Editora Saraiva.
http://www.historianet.com.br/conteudo/default.aspx?codigo=620
The same problem happened when we lost our trading in India it was also essential to our economy.
But where is the factor "blame" in the text? I can not read anything that puts the blame on Brazil for our economic problems. "Blame" as it is their fault we had economic problems? I read it was a consequence of the politic measures of D. João not Brazil's fault. It all depends of your choice of words and how you interpret the text.
We could blame Brazil if we said it was Brazil’s fault but at this time Brazil was still linked to Portugal so it was the consequence of the court moving to Brazil that caused the economic problems.
Why don't we also blame the French and the Spanish? It was their fault the Portuguese court moved to Brazil.
»»The Portuguese are used as the all-purpose scapegoat by Brazilians for their problems »»
After Brazil's independence, the Portuguese colonists became Brazil's nation builders. Therefore the Portuguese colonists should be blamed for the mess they created. Shame on them.
Sadly, today, the majority of Brazilians are the children of those inept Portuguese colonists who ruined Brazil for them. Right?
Well, Brazilians who want to blame someone but themselves, should blame the Portuguese colonists. Not the Portuguese living in Portugal today. Blame them, your incompetent Portuguese forefathers. Defame their graves, burn their houses, reap of their pictures, earase their names from memory, rename your streets, rename your cities. Curse them. Burn them in efigy.
Even better: Go for something dramatic, like, changing the name of your country to something like "Portuguese Free-Brazil" and adopt Esperanto as your national language. Free at last. It can be done.
Just a note: Revisionist history now blames the European colonists , namely the "Anglos" , for the evils of today's American society. Read Joel Spring, Deculturalization and the Struggle for Equality.
I mean "Portuguese-Free Brazil" not "Portuguese Free-Brazil"
»»Why don't we also blame the French and the Spanish? It was their fault the Portuguese court moved to Brazil»»
As a matter of fact the French are to blame for the Portuguese court to move to Brazil.
Fact:
The Napoleonic Wars (1799-1815) profoundly altered the course of Brazilian history. Early in November 1807, Napoleon dispatched an army across the Spanish frontier into Portugal. The Portuguese regent, Prince John, and most of his court embarked from Lisbon shortly before the arrival of the French army and sailed for Brazil (see John VI). Prince John made Rio de Janeiro the seat of the royal government of Portugal and decreed a series of reforms and improvements for Brazil, among them the removal of restrictions on commerce, the institution of measures beneficial to agriculture and industry, and the creation of schools of higher learning.
http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/HISTOR~6.htm
Essa Mariana tá viajano na maior maionese. Ai ai ai
A quien le interesa esta MIERDA?????
Someone said that all of Latin America is third world...actually none of it is, all the countries (possibly barring Argentina) are still developing, but that does not make them third world. They are second world, Africa is third world and africa alone, maybe soem coutnries in asia, but look at latin america and africa there is a big difference.
You obviously are forgetting Samoa and the United States of America.
Wow the arguments between the portuguese can get very heated. I think because of all the seperation through the years, the Brazilians like to have a nationalistic feel with their country. Since seperated from portugal for so long that they developed culturally very different than mainland portuguese people kind of the same way the spanish speaking latin countries have developed are very culturally different from Spain and from each other though there are groups of countries with cultural similarities. I would disagree with most of the people in this post with one reason. This sort of linguistic discussion is part of the degree field that I am taking at college. Out of all the languages in the world portuguese is one of the few that varieties of that language has diverged the most. Yes the language varieties are quite similar when written, there is a enough differences in actual pronunciation that it could show a level of intelligability between two people from different dialectal forms. So for someone to write "oh I have no problems understanding the way they speak" you are just lying to yourself.
»»So for someone to write "oh I have no problems understanding the way they speak" you are just lying to yourself.»»
Sorry but I don't see your point. Anyone can learn a new language. Right? If we all can learn a new language what is the problem with Brazilians complaining that they are unable to understand variations of their own language. It might be a little challenging sometimes, but it should be a minor one.
Portuguese is a world language. It is spoken by so many different people and in so many different ways. As a Portuguese speaker, I am very much willing to learn as many variations as I possibly can of my first language. It is a challenge but a very rewarding one.
So, if you are a Portuguese speaker and you pretend that you won't understand another Portuguese speaker based on dialectal differences you are lying to yourself.
