Polite invitations
Hmm, that's curious. I'm pretty sure I only hear it in older films and literature, myself.
Where are you from?-Kef
K. T. : Well, I'm not Klingon, if that's what you're wondering :)
I've lived "all over" from tiny towns to Tokyo. I didn't start using "How do you do?" until I figured out that this was the polite and formal phrase other internationals/foreigners expected.
My spouse doesn't use this phrase in business anymore. "Hello" or "Nice to meet you" works in some situations.
Not everyone enjoys our casual ways here, though. There's something to be said for some formality.
<Ha. The idea of British superiority was summarily slapped down in 1914. >
And for the USA, in Vietnam, and again now in Iraq.
You aren't American, M56, are you?
No, I believe M56 is British.
<< Happy Fourth of July - or what's left of it. And no! - we do NOT celebrate Independence Day here in the UK! You'd be gobsmacked if you knew the number of American tourists over here who ask if we do. >>
Considering the low popularity of the U.S. these days, perhaps you should celebrate it. It symbolizes when you got rid of us... you just didn't know you wanted to at the time! ;)
Say, if I ever go to Britain, I'll have to try this:
Me: Hey, do you have the Fourth of July here?
Brit: What? No, of course not!
Me: *louder, in earshot of everybody* Really? So you think the calendar skips from July 3 to July 5? That's very interesting!
But of course I'll have to make sure that my interlocutor isn't drunk first, unless I want a black eye. ;)
- Kef
>>I've lived "all over" from tiny towns to Tokyo. I didn't start using "How do you do?" until I figured out that this was the polite and formal phrase other internationals/foreigners expected.
My spouse doesn't use this phrase in business anymore. "Hello" or "Nice to meet you" works in some situations.
Not everyone enjoys our casual ways here, though. There's something to be said for some formality.<<
The thing is not just the informality that is typical of social interaction by North Americans, but simply that "How do you do?" is not a typical North American usage, no matter how formal the register one is using is. "How do you do?" comes off to me as not just formal, but rather as very un-North American.
On the other hand, "Nice to meet you", for instance, is far more typical formal usage in North American English, and I myself readily use it in more formal social situations. The matter is that while interactions between coworkers here are typically informal in nature, there are still social situations which are specifically formal, particularly interactions between employees of one company and customers or employees of another company in some kind of business relationship.
<You aren't American, M56, are you? >
Irish to the core.
<The thing is not just the informality that is typical of social interaction by North Americans, but simply that "How do you do?" is not a typical North American usage, no matter how formal the register one is using is. "How do you do?" comes off to me as not just formal, but rather as very un-North American. >
The question is, would most North Americans who do business internationally, change their expressions to fit a certain situation? Would a US business woman/man be prepared to use "How do you do" if it was expected of her/him?
Most US business people I know refuse to do so. They normally say "To hell with it! If they don't like my way of speaking, it's their problem" - they being the foreign counterpart.
Most USers I know are not famous for their diplomacy and tend to want everyone to fit their style of business and sociocultural behaviour. Maybe intercultural education on diplomacy is needed in US business schools.
Kef:
***"Hey - do you have the Fourth of July here?"***
I think many Brits would pip you at the post with the sharp quip should you ask in that way. Knowing the British tendency for sarcasm as I do, you would probably be told something ridiculous like "Well, we used to before we decimalised the calendar" or "No, not any more since the Government cut the length of the working week".
Hearing you ask that in an American accent most Brits would know what you're referring to anyway - unless you asked a real dickhead, but for clarity's sake and to avoid sarky replies maybe it would be best if you simply asked: "Do you celebrate American Independence Day here?"
On second thoughts though.....best not to ask that. You might well get a rude reply instead of just a sarky one. :-)
Now you know for sure that we do NOT celebrate the Fourth of July anniversary of the Declaration of American Independence in the UK just play safe and don't mention it at all - what's the point anyway?
Our next public holiday in Scotland is on 06 August, and in England and Wales on 27 August. Neither is to commemorate anything at all - they're just public holidays, so you don't risk anything by asking what they're all about.
We would like an additional holiday sometime in October (half way between the August holidays and Christmas) and the general consensus of opinion is that it should be around the middle of the month to commemorate the Battle of Waterloo in 1815, but that may, just may not go down a whizz with the French, so I reckon that idea will be a dead duck from the start. We mustn't upset our French neighbours.
Can't please all of the people all of the time.
>>Our next public holiday in Scotland is on 06 August, and in England and Wales on 27 August. Neither is to commemorate anything at all - they're just public holidays, so you don't risk anything by asking what they're all about.<<
The thing is that officially the Fourth of July is to commemorate the signing of the Declaration of Independence, but in practice it is more just the American analogue of Guy Fawkes' day (i.e. an excuse to blow stuff up for its own sake), except with extra flagwaving and nationalism to boot.
<< I think many Brits would pip you at the post with the sharp quip should you ask in that way. Knowing the British tendency for sarcasm as I do, you would probably be told something ridiculous like "Well, we used to before we decimalised the calendar" or "No, not any more since the Government cut the length of the working week". >>
Yeah, I did figure it'd probably be useless to actually try it. My impression is that the British wit is, on average, sharper than the American wit. Though that opinion might be influenced too much by Monty Python and Douglas Adams, but the Brits that I've talked to online certainly seem to have some kind of wit about them.
<< but for clarity's sake and to avoid sarky replies maybe it would be best if you simply asked: "Do you celebrate American Independence Day here?" >>
Yeah, but why would I ask that if I already know the answer? ;)
- Kef
"Me: *louder, in earshot of everybody* Really? So you think the calendar skips from July 3 to July 5? That's very interesting! "-Kef
LOL
"Irish to the core."-M56
I see. LOL! Just as I thought...dang! I guess 'em good...
"On the other hand, "Nice to meet you", for instance, is far more typical formal usage in North American English, and I myself readily use it in more formal social situations. The matter is that while interactions between coworkers here are typically informal in nature, there are still social situations which are specifically formal, particularly interactions between employees of one company and customers or employees of another company in some kind of business relationship" -Travis
This is food for thought. I'll start listening to see how many people are using "Nice to meet you" and how many are using "How do you do?" tonight.
"The question is, would most North Americans who do business internationally, change their expressions to fit a certain situation? Would a US business woman/man be prepared to use "How do you do" if it was expected of her/him?
Most US business people I know refuse to do so. They normally say "To hell with it! If they don't like my way of speaking, it's their problem" - they being the foreign counterpart.
Most USers I know are not famous for their diplomacy and tend to want everyone to fit their style of business and sociocultural behaviour. Maybe intercultural education on diplomacy is needed in US business schools."
Not every person who goes on business overseas has the opportunity to dig into another culture and master the niceties. Honestly, if I were to quiz you on doing business in France or Japan, how would YOU do?