Vosotros

<<I would be inclined to agree here. Irregular verb conjugation patterns can be memorized by rote, and once memorized one really does not have to think much about them.>>

English strong verbs do not conform to any pattern:

sing sang sung (-[e]n: No) all are different
speak spoke spoken (-[e]n: Yes) pret. vowel same as ppt.
come came come (-[e]n: No) and ppt. is same as present
take took taken (-[e]n: Yes) but vowel in ppt. is same as present

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I've been told by learners of English that they had great difficulty with English irregs, mistakingly saying "seeked" for "sought" etc.

<< Vosotros is such a rare word. Vos and otros. Isn't it? >>

Nothing rare about it, at least in Spain. Odd, perhaps. Were you thinking of the Spanish word "raro"? Often it's better translated as "odd" or "strange" rather than "rare".

<< English strong verbs do not conform to any pattern >>

No, but you still have to memorize only three forms of the verb, and the number of verbs where you have to do this is rather limited. Contrast this with Latin, where a great many verbs -- much, much more than English -- have to be learned with four principle parts.

Contrasting both of those with, say, Spanish, most Spanish irregular verbs do follow simple patterns. For example, the verb "poder" is regular except that the "o" becomes "ue" when it is stressed; this pattern is common among verbs where an "o" receives the stress. Some other verbs that follow this pattern are soler, soltar, sonar, soñar, contar, encontrar, acordar, recordar, probar, mostrar, demostrar... learn one of these verbs and you learn all of 'em. Of course, some verbs with a stressed "o" don't follow the pattern, but I usually don't find it hard to remember which words take the pattern and which don't. I can handle all the common irregular verbs in Spanish with ease, and the less common ones don't present any great difficulty.

- Kef

I don't agree, every serious linguist would say that the Spanish verbal system is rather complex, compared to most European languages verbs: They are highly inflected, there're lots of tenses, moods and irregularities. The most difficult aspect is not to memorize all Spanish verb endings, which may be quite simple but to use all spanish tenses properly.

All the Spanish tenses also exist in English, except the use of the subjunctive is much more limited (especially in Britain). It's just that the forms are expressed using auxiliary verbs instead of distinct conjugations. So what makes it harder to use the tenses correctly in Spanish? I don't think the subjunctive is the big scary monster that many people make it out to be.

- Kef

I would also say that Spanish tenses are used similarly to English tenses.

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not Spanish nor English, but apart from the subjunctive mood, Spanish "preterito indefinido" or "imperfecto" are more difficult than the English counterparts. Furtherthemore Spanish has three different conjugation forms: -ar, -er, -ir. It seems to me that almost everything is harder than in English, except maybe phrasal verbs

Subjunctive allows you to express things with more detail.

<< but apart from the subjunctive mood, Spanish "preterito indefinido" or "imperfecto" are more difficult than the English counterparts. >>

OK, I'll grant you that one. That does still give me difficulty, more than the subjunctive does.

- Kef

>>First of all, I'd like to say that I'm not Spanish nor English, but apart from the subjunctive mood, Spanish "preterito indefinido" or "imperfecto" are more difficult than the English counterparts. Furtherthemore Spanish has three different conjugation forms: -ar, -er, -ir. It seems to me that almost everything is harder than in English, except maybe phrasal verbs<<

But did anyone say that the use of tense and aspect in English was easy in the first place?

"OK, I'll grant you that one. That does still give me difficulty, more than the subjunctive does. "

What do you mean with preterito indefinido? Could you provide an example?

I'm pretty sure the poster was talking about forms such as "hablaba", "hacía", etc., as opposed to "habló", "hizo", etc.

Hablaba and habló are exchangeable. Where you use one of the two tenses you can use the other one.

<<Hablaba and habló are exchangeable. Where you use one of the two tenses you can use the other one. >>

No, they are not.

"Mientras hablaba por teléfono, alguien golpeó la puerta."

You cannot exchange "hablaba" for "habló" in this (and many other) examples.

If they were interchangeable, learning Spanish would be a lot easier. They're not anywhere *close* to interchangeable. There are some sentences where either one could be used without a change of meaning, but usually you have to pick one. They're as different as ser and estar.

- Kef