Proto Germanic / Germanic Languages Similarities

Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 19:37 GMT
I meant more like: The Norwegian sound -u (almost like in French -bourg) does not seem so common in Dutch.
Jo   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 20:44 GMT
I would say say that the sound in -bourg is similar to the sound in Dutch 'boer' (farmer) The umlaut sound of u can be heard in the word 'duur' ( expensive, (dear in English)
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 20:57 GMT
Ok. But when I think again I would describe the Norwegian -u as the -ou in "yOU". Where do you find it in Dutch?
Travis   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:01 GMT
I think that it'd be easier if you guys went and actually used SAMPA or X-SAMPA here, rather than trying to compare phonemes in different languages by using the native orthographies of each, and saying that one thing "sorta sounds like" another thing, without actually specifically tying things to SAMPA or X-SAMPA.
Travis   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:03 GMT
Oh, and by the way, the "ou" in English "you" is /u/ or /u:/, depending on who you ask and what dialect they speak. I should have put that in my previous post, but forgot.
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:08 GMT
Good idea, Travis1
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:11 GMT
Good idea, Travis!
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:26 GMT
I would also say /u/, although this sound is usually written u with a horizontal bar in Norwegian IPA.
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:35 GMT
Probably because it is a central closed, and not a back closed vowel, like in English "goose".
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:44 GMT
Norwegian u in X-Sampa: }
Fredrik from Norway   Wednesday, March 09, 2005, 21:47 GMT
So, does it exist in Dutch?
greg   Thursday, March 10, 2005, 08:36 GMT
Travis,

Where do you find SAMPA and how does it works ? Is an IPA-typing software ?
Jo   Thursday, March 10, 2005, 13:53 GMT
the 'u' as in you is written as 'oe'
Travis   Thursday, March 10, 2005, 15:21 GMT
SAMPA is not a piece of software, but rather an IPA-like means of transcribing individual sounds (or phonemes, if you like) using just ASCII characters. If one wants a direct one to one relation with particular IPA characters and like, then one can use X-SAMPA, which is more particular about such matters.
Sander   Thursday, March 10, 2005, 16:21 GMT
Frederik from Norway

=>In which words do you use the ü? And how do you spell it? <=

Like travis said,mostly in german loanwords (like Überhaupt)
But the Dutch " U " sounds the same as the german " Ü ".