Any theory that starts out "Europeans--and British people in particular" has got very shaky foundations. If it is British people in particular, it *can't* be Europeans in general. And it's not British people in particular anyway. Behold: I am British and this is me understanding that Americans may be nice without any ulterior motive.
American English in the UK?
This Brits think Americans are being insincere or fake stuff really reminded me of this post on Separated by a Common Language.
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2008/06/compliments-nice-and-lovely.html
For the record I did have an incident with a woman in Cardiff who got into a bit of a huff because I said "have a nice day," to her. I'll admit that I was a bit taken aback by it, since I'd never experienced anything like that before. I certainly didn't connect it to any larger cultural phenomenon though. Now I wonder if it's part of the "complimenting culture" or if it's just a distaste for the (apparently) very American phrase 'have a nice day'.
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2008/06/compliments-nice-and-lovely.html
For the record I did have an incident with a woman in Cardiff who got into a bit of a huff because I said "have a nice day," to her. I'll admit that I was a bit taken aback by it, since I'd never experienced anything like that before. I certainly didn't connect it to any larger cultural phenomenon though. Now I wonder if it's part of the "complimenting culture" or if it's just a distaste for the (apparently) very American phrase 'have a nice day'.
↑ WRP, I read in the book "Brit-Think, Ameri-Think" that British people don't like the phrase "have a nice day" because of its commanding tone; after all, we're telling them what to do, huh?
AJC:
Undoubtedly, you're absolutely correct, strictly speaking. The use of the word "Europeans", to refer to the groups of peoples from across the Atlantic who immigrated to America in the last two centuries, is an Americanism. When an American wants to refer to Frenchmen, etc., he will often use the term "Continentals", or "Continental Europeans".
I posit the notion that the English language has many terms in common usage that are not strictly accurate. For example, both British and American English speakers refer to the white race as "Caucasian"; this term infuriates my Lithuanian coworker. She says Caucasians come from the Caucasus, who don't even remotely resemble us, either in culture or in appearance. She hates the term to the point of an obsession. For my own part, I'd never really thought of it as an issue. Have you?
Moreover, the word "American" itself is strictly inaccurate. Despite widespread use of the term, people from Latin America [still another inaccurate term] despise the word. Since enough ink has already been spilt on this issue on this forum, I trust that you've aware of the debate on it and understand its implications.
Would you prefer another term to signify those from across the Atlantic who settled the US?
In any case, at this juncture perhaps a return to the topic at hand is in order.
AJC:
Undoubtedly, you're absolutely correct, strictly speaking. The use of the word "Europeans", to refer to the groups of peoples from across the Atlantic who immigrated to America in the last two centuries, is an Americanism. When an American wants to refer to Frenchmen, etc., he will often use the term "Continentals", or "Continental Europeans".
I posit the notion that the English language has many terms in common usage that are not strictly accurate. For example, both British and American English speakers refer to the white race as "Caucasian"; this term infuriates my Lithuanian coworker. She says Caucasians come from the Caucasus, who don't even remotely resemble us, either in culture or in appearance. She hates the term to the point of an obsession. For my own part, I'd never really thought of it as an issue. Have you?
Moreover, the word "American" itself is strictly inaccurate. Despite widespread use of the term, people from Latin America [still another inaccurate term] despise the word. Since enough ink has already been spilt on this issue on this forum, I trust that you've aware of the debate on it and understand its implications.
Would you prefer another term to signify those from across the Atlantic who settled the US?
In any case, at this juncture perhaps a return to the topic at hand is in order.
Jasper, perhaps you could focus on the British for now, if you are willing to write down the details. Examples would be very useful, because I am quite confident, having lived in both places, I can explain all of them as a misunderstanding between cultures.
I want to repeat my position once again, as it has already been misread by people. I never said I get angry when someone says 'Excuse me', I said it was hard for me not to get angry, but I never actually did get angry. That's because I understood the intended meaning, even if it was not how I would naturally expect someone to express themselves. The conflict, which was merely in my head, was to resolve the social behaviour I learnt as a child with what was done in a foreign country. There is nothing particularly important about the two countries involved, nor about were I come from. I think it is both clear from my experience and the fact that we are both, after all, human-beings, that we should all have similar levels of empathy and trust.
I can equally give you examples of the same type of social differences with Germans or the French. The examples are different, as you would expect, but the common reason is not a different level of trust or mistrust, it's merely a variation of social norms.
The two examples you give are interesting. The Scout movement was founded by a Briton and the first Lost and Found was in Paris. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Americans, I'm just saying you're not that different.
To say the history of the Second World War in Europe was uniformly the same is absurd and demonstrates how weak your argument is. Compare for just a second Germany, Poland, Switzerland, Sweden and the UK.
I want to repeat my position once again, as it has already been misread by people. I never said I get angry when someone says 'Excuse me', I said it was hard for me not to get angry, but I never actually did get angry. That's because I understood the intended meaning, even if it was not how I would naturally expect someone to express themselves. The conflict, which was merely in my head, was to resolve the social behaviour I learnt as a child with what was done in a foreign country. There is nothing particularly important about the two countries involved, nor about were I come from. I think it is both clear from my experience and the fact that we are both, after all, human-beings, that we should all have similar levels of empathy and trust.
I can equally give you examples of the same type of social differences with Germans or the French. The examples are different, as you would expect, but the common reason is not a different level of trust or mistrust, it's merely a variation of social norms.
The two examples you give are interesting. The Scout movement was founded by a Briton and the first Lost and Found was in Paris. I'm not trying to take anything away from the Americans, I'm just saying you're not that different.
To say the history of the Second World War in Europe was uniformly the same is absurd and demonstrates how weak your argument is. Compare for just a second Germany, Poland, Switzerland, Sweden and the UK.
George, as a preface, I have just read the link kindly posted by WPR. This link explains quite a lot about why Americans will offer heart-felt compliments to Brits that the Brits, erroneously, perceive as insincere. Americans offer these compliments as a way to "connect"; they'll find something they like in a Brit (and of course don't mention issues they DON"T like) to connect, due to some complex underlying social structures that we Americans have but that the Brits do not have. I strongly suggest reading this essay to both Brits and Americans. For my own part, I will have to be much more careful with my compliments.
At this point, I must digress for a moment: I discussed this exact same issue ("fake" American manners) with my Lithuanian coworker. She admitted that they indeed don't trust the Americans due to some obscure war intrigues relating to WW2. I erroneously assumed that if the War is an issue with one group of Europeans, it would be an issue with them all...
Back to the topic...I'll give you a few examples for you to ponder:
Item 1: Damian suggested in a post sometime back that Brits get annoyed at the compliment "Your English is so beautiful". Brits are annoyed at this compliment because, after all, Britain is the birthplace of English. But to an American, we're simply enjoying the sounds we're hearing coming out of the Brit's mouth; origin isn't an issue we're taking into account. Some varieties of British English are indeed aurally pleasing; RP is particularly pleasant on a woman with a deep voice, for example. (For my own part, I find Yorkshire English very pleasing to hear.) However, an American wouldn't mention the fact that Cockney is often unpleasant to hear, because he wouldn't want to offend.
Item 2: This tidbit comes from a relative who lived Fairbanks, AK: "The people here are very friendly, even to American standards. The neighbors will give you the shirt off their back if you're in trouble; if your car breaks down, less than a minute will pass before somebody stops to help you; neighbors will often even mow your grass for you while your gone, without any thought whatever to remuneration. It's a genuine friendliness that must be experienced to be believed.
The Brits seem visibly uncomfortable with this in-your-face friendliness--I don't know why. By contrast, the Scandinavians, and Germans, in particular, love it--and the Fairbanks area-- enough to want to stay forever. Indeed, there is a sizable German community in Fairbanks. Often, you'll see in shop windows SIE SPRECHEN DEUTSCH, as opposed to the lower 48, where you would see HABLA ESPANOL."
Item 3: This happened to me years ago when I was a waiter. Two English women speaking very proper RP ordered a danish; when asked if they wanted it heated, they replied, "No, thank you." The danish was served.
A moment or two later, one of them asked me,"Would you be kind enough to heat these danishes? They're a bit stiff." I replied,"Sure" and retrieved the danishes.
Back in the kitchen, I noticed that the danishes were indeed old, so I replaced with them with new danishes. One of the women asked me"Were these danishes replaced?" I told her,"Well, I noticed that the other ones were old, so I thought I would give you fresher ones."
They reacted with looks of utter astonishment. Then, they exchanged glances and erupted in peals of nervous laughter. After some time passed, I noticed looks of what appeared to be genuine admiration wash over their faces.
While an American in this situation would have been very pleased, he not necessarily would have been surprised. These Brits were absolutely gob-smacked.
Item 4: Recently, four women from the UK were told,"The service charge is already included; no additional tipping is necessary." I noticed, once again, that look of utter astonishment--complete bewilderment--wash over their faces. It was as if it was the first time in their lives an American was not hustling them for more money. (This is my interpretation; I could be mistaken). I honestly did NOT expect an additional tip--the amount provided on the check is quite sufficient.
A lively discussion ensued about the good weather, things they could do while in Reno, a visit to Walmart, etc. Apparently, they were quite smitten with my approach--they were effusive in their warmness, punctuating sentences with a smile and the word "love". (I'm afraid I dropped the ball on the pub issue, however.)
Item 5: It has occurred to me that oftentimes British tourists go to the absolute worst areas in America: places like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, or god forbid, Southern Florida. These places are cesspools of crime, complete with gangs and drive-by shootings, and heck, many of the residents, especially in South Florida, speak no English at all. (You see signs on windows WE SPEAK ENGLISH). If it's true that Brits are natural cynics, and possibly mistrustful of Americans, their ideas about Americans would be only reinforced by living in such places.
George, I'd better pause for now. I hope you'll find some of these examples illuminating; I hope you'll be kind enough to read that link that WRP posted for some valuable insights on this phenomena. I eagerly await your comments.
At this point, I must digress for a moment: I discussed this exact same issue ("fake" American manners) with my Lithuanian coworker. She admitted that they indeed don't trust the Americans due to some obscure war intrigues relating to WW2. I erroneously assumed that if the War is an issue with one group of Europeans, it would be an issue with them all...
Back to the topic...I'll give you a few examples for you to ponder:
Item 1: Damian suggested in a post sometime back that Brits get annoyed at the compliment "Your English is so beautiful". Brits are annoyed at this compliment because, after all, Britain is the birthplace of English. But to an American, we're simply enjoying the sounds we're hearing coming out of the Brit's mouth; origin isn't an issue we're taking into account. Some varieties of British English are indeed aurally pleasing; RP is particularly pleasant on a woman with a deep voice, for example. (For my own part, I find Yorkshire English very pleasing to hear.) However, an American wouldn't mention the fact that Cockney is often unpleasant to hear, because he wouldn't want to offend.
Item 2: This tidbit comes from a relative who lived Fairbanks, AK: "The people here are very friendly, even to American standards. The neighbors will give you the shirt off their back if you're in trouble; if your car breaks down, less than a minute will pass before somebody stops to help you; neighbors will often even mow your grass for you while your gone, without any thought whatever to remuneration. It's a genuine friendliness that must be experienced to be believed.
The Brits seem visibly uncomfortable with this in-your-face friendliness--I don't know why. By contrast, the Scandinavians, and Germans, in particular, love it--and the Fairbanks area-- enough to want to stay forever. Indeed, there is a sizable German community in Fairbanks. Often, you'll see in shop windows SIE SPRECHEN DEUTSCH, as opposed to the lower 48, where you would see HABLA ESPANOL."
Item 3: This happened to me years ago when I was a waiter. Two English women speaking very proper RP ordered a danish; when asked if they wanted it heated, they replied, "No, thank you." The danish was served.
A moment or two later, one of them asked me,"Would you be kind enough to heat these danishes? They're a bit stiff." I replied,"Sure" and retrieved the danishes.
Back in the kitchen, I noticed that the danishes were indeed old, so I replaced with them with new danishes. One of the women asked me"Were these danishes replaced?" I told her,"Well, I noticed that the other ones were old, so I thought I would give you fresher ones."
They reacted with looks of utter astonishment. Then, they exchanged glances and erupted in peals of nervous laughter. After some time passed, I noticed looks of what appeared to be genuine admiration wash over their faces.
While an American in this situation would have been very pleased, he not necessarily would have been surprised. These Brits were absolutely gob-smacked.
Item 4: Recently, four women from the UK were told,"The service charge is already included; no additional tipping is necessary." I noticed, once again, that look of utter astonishment--complete bewilderment--wash over their faces. It was as if it was the first time in their lives an American was not hustling them for more money. (This is my interpretation; I could be mistaken). I honestly did NOT expect an additional tip--the amount provided on the check is quite sufficient.
A lively discussion ensued about the good weather, things they could do while in Reno, a visit to Walmart, etc. Apparently, they were quite smitten with my approach--they were effusive in their warmness, punctuating sentences with a smile and the word "love". (I'm afraid I dropped the ball on the pub issue, however.)
Item 5: It has occurred to me that oftentimes British tourists go to the absolute worst areas in America: places like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, or god forbid, Southern Florida. These places are cesspools of crime, complete with gangs and drive-by shootings, and heck, many of the residents, especially in South Florida, speak no English at all. (You see signs on windows WE SPEAK ENGLISH). If it's true that Brits are natural cynics, and possibly mistrustful of Americans, their ideas about Americans would be only reinforced by living in such places.
George, I'd better pause for now. I hope you'll find some of these examples illuminating; I hope you'll be kind enough to read that link that WRP posted for some valuable insights on this phenomena. I eagerly await your comments.
For the record I don't believe the Brits are less trusting than Americans. I believe Bowling Alone had a study about, if not the trust, than the good faith of different European countries. Briefcases filled with cash were left outside a courthouse, each briefcase contained instructions about where to return them. In Sweden all the briefcases were returned, in Italy none of them were.
This isn't particularly relevant to the discussion at hand, I just want to state I don't believe there's some sort of Europe wide cynicism. Since clearly a Swede wouldn't be surprised to find an item they lost in the lost and found. Nor does the US have some sort monopoly on down home values like optimism and trust. As an American who was never a Girl Scout (Guide) nor particularly church going I still have the same issues interacting with people from different cultures that other Americans do, so I can't see that has anything to do with the inherent "wholesomeness" of American culture.
As tangentially related side note: Now that the Republican National Convention is over I would like to say that there's nothing I find more annoying than the idea that people who live in urban areas are somehow are "less American" or "less real" than people who live in small towns. Small town America is a myth anyway, yes there are many small towns, and many people are from them, but the majority of Americans live in MSAs, either in cities themselves or their suburbs. Don't get me started on what "the heartland" means. I live in the Midwest, but I'm pretty sure Chicago is not what they're talking about.
This isn't particularly relevant to the discussion at hand, I just want to state I don't believe there's some sort of Europe wide cynicism. Since clearly a Swede wouldn't be surprised to find an item they lost in the lost and found. Nor does the US have some sort monopoly on down home values like optimism and trust. As an American who was never a Girl Scout (Guide) nor particularly church going I still have the same issues interacting with people from different cultures that other Americans do, so I can't see that has anything to do with the inherent "wholesomeness" of American culture.
As tangentially related side note: Now that the Republican National Convention is over I would like to say that there's nothing I find more annoying than the idea that people who live in urban areas are somehow are "less American" or "less real" than people who live in small towns. Small town America is a myth anyway, yes there are many small towns, and many people are from them, but the majority of Americans live in MSAs, either in cities themselves or their suburbs. Don't get me started on what "the heartland" means. I live in the Midwest, but I'm pretty sure Chicago is not what they're talking about.
<<my Lithuanian coworker. She says Caucasians come from the Caucasus, who don't even remotely resemble us, either in culture or in appearance. >>
Lithuanians don't resemble us Western Europeans in culture either.
Lithuanians don't resemble us Western Europeans in culture either.
WRP: I knew I was going to offend somebody with my last post, but it seemed unavoidable in order to stress a point.
My point was that if Brits are cynical and mistrusting of American motives, their distrust would be reinforced because they go to live in the places were Americans can be trusted the least; places that are crimeridden; places where they really are in some kind of danger, if prudence is not maintained at every moment. Absolutely nothing fuels distrust more than crime. Do you remember the tourist murders in South Florida a few years ago?
A Brit is far more likely to be a victim in Chicago, IL than in Skokie, IL, which is just a few miles away. But how many Brits would make their way to Skokie?
Do you see the point?
My point was that if Brits are cynical and mistrusting of American motives, their distrust would be reinforced because they go to live in the places were Americans can be trusted the least; places that are crimeridden; places where they really are in some kind of danger, if prudence is not maintained at every moment. Absolutely nothing fuels distrust more than crime. Do you remember the tourist murders in South Florida a few years ago?
A Brit is far more likely to be a victim in Chicago, IL than in Skokie, IL, which is just a few miles away. But how many Brits would make their way to Skokie?
Do you see the point?
OK, I have a friend from Kent in England who works as a teacher in Northumberland (also England). She regularly complains about the fact that whenever she's wearing new clothes or has changed her hairstyle, the kids in the school compliment her on it. She says she finds this in some way "aggressive", while I find her irritation utterly baffling. See what we have here? The same divergence noted by the link to the blog regarding how compliments are perceived but *within* one country.
It might be that on a *regional* level that there's a difference between the north and south of Britain (possibly die to Kent being quite close to occupied France or something). It might be due to age difference (due to her being closer to the age that would remember the second world war - though I'm with the kids, remember) or it might just be that she's a bit strange. Perhaps if I could check on everybody from the South of England, from Kent, or wherever, I could find out which it was. In the meanwhile, I can't see what basis I have to make sweeping judgements based on very little evidence. Still less how you and the blog writer can scale it up to either nations or continents depending on how confident you're feeling.
As for the various items - I can't see where you're going with this. One of them contrasts the British with Germans rather than lumping them together as having a shared participation in WWII. Two show British people being pleased with good service rather than, as we'd presumably expect, suspicious.
It might be that on a *regional* level that there's a difference between the north and south of Britain (possibly die to Kent being quite close to occupied France or something). It might be due to age difference (due to her being closer to the age that would remember the second world war - though I'm with the kids, remember) or it might just be that she's a bit strange. Perhaps if I could check on everybody from the South of England, from Kent, or wherever, I could find out which it was. In the meanwhile, I can't see what basis I have to make sweeping judgements based on very little evidence. Still less how you and the blog writer can scale it up to either nations or continents depending on how confident you're feeling.
As for the various items - I can't see where you're going with this. One of them contrasts the British with Germans rather than lumping them together as having a shared participation in WWII. Two show British people being pleased with good service rather than, as we'd presumably expect, suspicious.
<<Surely you don't read them correctly either ?>>
Oh, I'm sure I don't. And I've lived in enough places that I no longer try to make assumptions about what people mean by their behavior, or take things too personally. And to be honest, when I go to Europe I tend to drastically lower my expectations about interpersonal interactions -- I don't expect the same kind of service from my waiters, I don't expect people to smile at me in greeting or acknowledgement, etc., because I know those aren't the social norms of that part of the world. (I also spent 3 years in Japan as a teenager -- you talk about some MAJOR adjustments in social norms -- Europeans are a piece of cake compared to that!)
I also tended to visit large cities and touristy areas in Europe, and I would expect people to not be as friendly in any big city as they would be in a smaller town, as Jasper points out--although there are nice people and nasty ones everywhere you go.
I think that LACK of expectations that I have probably colors how I think about my stepmother's expectations -- I'm annoyed that she is still trying to judge us by her own alternate standards at this point, instead of making an effort to parse the cultural "language" that we speak. It's basic social anthropology, and she claims to be a therapist for chrissakes -- you'd think she'd take an interest! (And how is she going to treat Americans if she can't be bothered to break our codes, you know?)
No, she's not English; she's Hungarian by birth, German by residence. And I think many of her issues are hers and hers alone, of course. I have certainly had individual people from many places smile, or be very pleasant, make small talk, or even go out of their way to help me while in their countries; that's not exclusively an American thing -- I can think of instances that have happened in England, France, Japan, Korea, and Mexico. (In Canada, too, although they are very similar to Americans culturally, so it doesn't pertain as much -- also had Canadians be thoroughly evil to me, so there you go. Just as nasty as Americans can be ... don't think we're all peaches and cream all the time!)
I have actually only spent a couple weeks in England; most of my European experiences have been in Germany, France, Belgium, etc. So I don't make a lot of generalizations about Brits specifically -- I mostly know them from their movies. And we all know those are fiction. Not National Geographic documentaries. ;) Now if only we could convince the rest of the world not to take OUR movies as gospel, we'd be getting somewhere....
Oh, I'm sure I don't. And I've lived in enough places that I no longer try to make assumptions about what people mean by their behavior, or take things too personally. And to be honest, when I go to Europe I tend to drastically lower my expectations about interpersonal interactions -- I don't expect the same kind of service from my waiters, I don't expect people to smile at me in greeting or acknowledgement, etc., because I know those aren't the social norms of that part of the world. (I also spent 3 years in Japan as a teenager -- you talk about some MAJOR adjustments in social norms -- Europeans are a piece of cake compared to that!)
I also tended to visit large cities and touristy areas in Europe, and I would expect people to not be as friendly in any big city as they would be in a smaller town, as Jasper points out--although there are nice people and nasty ones everywhere you go.
I think that LACK of expectations that I have probably colors how I think about my stepmother's expectations -- I'm annoyed that she is still trying to judge us by her own alternate standards at this point, instead of making an effort to parse the cultural "language" that we speak. It's basic social anthropology, and she claims to be a therapist for chrissakes -- you'd think she'd take an interest! (And how is she going to treat Americans if she can't be bothered to break our codes, you know?)
No, she's not English; she's Hungarian by birth, German by residence. And I think many of her issues are hers and hers alone, of course. I have certainly had individual people from many places smile, or be very pleasant, make small talk, or even go out of their way to help me while in their countries; that's not exclusively an American thing -- I can think of instances that have happened in England, France, Japan, Korea, and Mexico. (In Canada, too, although they are very similar to Americans culturally, so it doesn't pertain as much -- also had Canadians be thoroughly evil to me, so there you go. Just as nasty as Americans can be ... don't think we're all peaches and cream all the time!)
I have actually only spent a couple weeks in England; most of my European experiences have been in Germany, France, Belgium, etc. So I don't make a lot of generalizations about Brits specifically -- I mostly know them from their movies. And we all know those are fiction. Not National Geographic documentaries. ;) Now if only we could convince the rest of the world not to take OUR movies as gospel, we'd be getting somewhere....
Jasper, I read the blog that was mentioned too, and I would say I broadly agree with what they say, although perhaps not with the explanations of the differences.
Let me go through your list as I promised. I'll assume the British people involved were all tourists.
Item 1: I think this is pretty well covered by the 'compliments' blog. This complement, in particular, is a seen by Britons as a bit of a cliche to hear from an American. To make a comparison (I think) we can all relate to, how many times did we hear as children 'Oh, how you've grown!' If you ask ten Britons to act out a conversation with an American, I bet about seven or so would include the accent statement.
I suppose the reason behind it is that this is something that is very new to one party, but very normal to the other. Variation in accent is far more pronounced in the UK, so it's not such a surprise when someone speaks differently to someone else. Americans are less accustomed to this. I recall being on an aeroplane in the US when the pilot started speaking to the cabin in a Southern US accent. There was an audible collective laugh from the passengers. They were not taking the piss out of him, they were just surprised; that sort of thing doesn't happen as much.
Item 2: There's no real story here, you're just hypothesising. Although, the Germans in Fairbanks might not be as good at speaking German as you think. I think 'sie' should be 'wir'. As AJC points out, you're also contradicting yourself.
Item 3: Well, no-one's being horrible to anyone here, unfortunately. I would say heating a Danish pastry is an American thing. I feel the British view is that one toasts or reheats things that aren't fresh. And that seems to be their point of view here too. Their first choice was not to heat it, but when they realised it was stale they changed their minds. I would interpret their giggles as surprise; what they wanted was a fresh Danish, a heated stale one was a second choice, but what they got was their third choice --- a heated fresh one!
It seems to me that both parties meant well and both recognised that the other party meant well. Although something was lost in translation, the goodwill was not.
Item 4: I think this is a similar story to 3. I would interpret their surprise not as a reaction to your generosity, but a reaction to such a statement being made at all. People do tip in the UK, but much less than in the US. Given that you mentioned Danish pasties, perhaps we are talking about a cafe. I would in no way feel obliged to tip in a cafe, perhaps I would a bit if there was table service. I think their shock was just that this was something out of the blue for them. They probably weren't planning on tipping you anyway, so why would you feel the need to make sure they don't? In America, you even tip if someone gets you a drink at the bar and you are left to walk it to your table yourself. Tipping culture can be very different in different places. In Japan it is rude to tip.
('Love' is used in some parts of the UK like Australians say 'mate', although usually just to the opposite sex.)
Item 5: I have lived in some of the poorest parts of the US, and I have to say your analysis is wrong. Yes, there was lots of crime and I stuck out like a sore thumb, but I am quite convinced the reason I never got in any trouble was because I looked people in the eye and smiled. People are both good and bad the world over, but smile at someone and almost everyone will smile back --- that does not require any knowledge of English.
Let me go through your list as I promised. I'll assume the British people involved were all tourists.
Item 1: I think this is pretty well covered by the 'compliments' blog. This complement, in particular, is a seen by Britons as a bit of a cliche to hear from an American. To make a comparison (I think) we can all relate to, how many times did we hear as children 'Oh, how you've grown!' If you ask ten Britons to act out a conversation with an American, I bet about seven or so would include the accent statement.
I suppose the reason behind it is that this is something that is very new to one party, but very normal to the other. Variation in accent is far more pronounced in the UK, so it's not such a surprise when someone speaks differently to someone else. Americans are less accustomed to this. I recall being on an aeroplane in the US when the pilot started speaking to the cabin in a Southern US accent. There was an audible collective laugh from the passengers. They were not taking the piss out of him, they were just surprised; that sort of thing doesn't happen as much.
Item 2: There's no real story here, you're just hypothesising. Although, the Germans in Fairbanks might not be as good at speaking German as you think. I think 'sie' should be 'wir'. As AJC points out, you're also contradicting yourself.
Item 3: Well, no-one's being horrible to anyone here, unfortunately. I would say heating a Danish pastry is an American thing. I feel the British view is that one toasts or reheats things that aren't fresh. And that seems to be their point of view here too. Their first choice was not to heat it, but when they realised it was stale they changed their minds. I would interpret their giggles as surprise; what they wanted was a fresh Danish, a heated stale one was a second choice, but what they got was their third choice --- a heated fresh one!
It seems to me that both parties meant well and both recognised that the other party meant well. Although something was lost in translation, the goodwill was not.
Item 4: I think this is a similar story to 3. I would interpret their surprise not as a reaction to your generosity, but a reaction to such a statement being made at all. People do tip in the UK, but much less than in the US. Given that you mentioned Danish pasties, perhaps we are talking about a cafe. I would in no way feel obliged to tip in a cafe, perhaps I would a bit if there was table service. I think their shock was just that this was something out of the blue for them. They probably weren't planning on tipping you anyway, so why would you feel the need to make sure they don't? In America, you even tip if someone gets you a drink at the bar and you are left to walk it to your table yourself. Tipping culture can be very different in different places. In Japan it is rude to tip.
('Love' is used in some parts of the UK like Australians say 'mate', although usually just to the opposite sex.)
Item 5: I have lived in some of the poorest parts of the US, and I have to say your analysis is wrong. Yes, there was lots of crime and I stuck out like a sore thumb, but I am quite convinced the reason I never got in any trouble was because I looked people in the eye and smiled. People are both good and bad the world over, but smile at someone and almost everyone will smile back --- that does not require any knowledge of English.
Jasper: I wasn't offended by what you wrote. My post was part trying diffuse the what was starting to be a way more culturally loaded discussion than I intended on starting (because I find cultural differences interesting but it isn't very helpful to the discussion when people get all het up and start attacking) and part venting about internal US political stuff that's a particular pet peeve of mine that didn't really have much to do with what you wrote (I don't appreciate the implication that I'm less American than someone in Cairo, IL because I was born in Boston and live in Chicago). Bit of a run on sentence that.
Also I'm not sure tourists do end up in the wrong part of town very often. It certainly must happen (many things do) and it is a cliche of road trip movies. Hell my own mother freaked a bit when I told her what street I lived on because she had a vague memory of driving down it to the airport (though it doesn't actually go anywhere near the airport) and ending up in Austin (one of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago). On the other hand things tourists are generally interested in are well removed from the vast majority of bad neighborhoods. In Chicago, for instance, I can think a very limited number of things a tourist could be doing in a bad neighborhood and sites that are in bad neighborhood have lesser status and aren't visited as often. A perfect example of that would be The Garfield Park Conservatory, which really should be one Chicago's biggest tourist attractions IMO, but isn't because it's a)in Garfield Park and b)rather far from other tourist attractions the city.
Also I'm not sure tourists do end up in the wrong part of town very often. It certainly must happen (many things do) and it is a cliche of road trip movies. Hell my own mother freaked a bit when I told her what street I lived on because she had a vague memory of driving down it to the airport (though it doesn't actually go anywhere near the airport) and ending up in Austin (one of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago). On the other hand things tourists are generally interested in are well removed from the vast majority of bad neighborhoods. In Chicago, for instance, I can think a very limited number of things a tourist could be doing in a bad neighborhood and sites that are in bad neighborhood have lesser status and aren't visited as often. A perfect example of that would be The Garfield Park Conservatory, which really should be one Chicago's biggest tourist attractions IMO, but isn't because it's a)in Garfield Park and b)rather far from other tourist attractions the city.
If I'm at a buffet or a cafe, I will not tip anyone. You made me food, I paid for it, we're done. Only if you come to my table to take my order, bring me my food, refill my drinks, and present me with a bill do I tip.
However, you tip at a bar to "make friends" with the bartender. If you intend to be drinking a lot, this is a good strategy -- you may get better service, a little more alcohol content in your drinks, or even free drinks -- after all, the tips go in his or her pockets, while the drink price goes to the establishment. You tip big and ostentatiously (i.e., while he or she is watching), and he may decide that it's more profitable to himself to stiff the owner so as to earn your tips....
However, you tip at a bar to "make friends" with the bartender. If you intend to be drinking a lot, this is a good strategy -- you may get better service, a little more alcohol content in your drinks, or even free drinks -- after all, the tips go in his or her pockets, while the drink price goes to the establishment. You tip big and ostentatiously (i.e., while he or she is watching), and he may decide that it's more profitable to himself to stiff the owner so as to earn your tips....
"Item 2: There's no real story here, you're just hypothesising. Although, the Germans in Fairbanks might not be as good at speaking German as you think. I think 'sie' should be 'wir'. As AJC points out, you're also contradicting yourself. "
George, this apparent contradiction is probably my own fault--I was mixing contexts. While it is probably true that most Europeans think us "insincere", how each country adapts to that issue--along with other "American" issues I haven't mentioned--is probably unique. This isn't contradictory at all when you think about it.
It must be realized that I was quoting out of memory, too, of a conversation I had that took place quite a few years ago (as did some of the other incidents). The Sie Sprechen Deutsch is merely a slip of the memory; I apologize for that.
The point in that story is that the Brits feel very uncomfortable with the in-your-face friendliness that is the hallmark of Fairbanksans. Germans might, too, but if they do, they overcome that issue, and adapt very well to the culture. (In fact, despite any possible issue with our "insincerity", the Germans adapt to life in other areas of America very well indeed; I don't know all the reasons why.)
George, this apparent contradiction is probably my own fault--I was mixing contexts. While it is probably true that most Europeans think us "insincere", how each country adapts to that issue--along with other "American" issues I haven't mentioned--is probably unique. This isn't contradictory at all when you think about it.
It must be realized that I was quoting out of memory, too, of a conversation I had that took place quite a few years ago (as did some of the other incidents). The Sie Sprechen Deutsch is merely a slip of the memory; I apologize for that.
The point in that story is that the Brits feel very uncomfortable with the in-your-face friendliness that is the hallmark of Fairbanksans. Germans might, too, but if they do, they overcome that issue, and adapt very well to the culture. (In fact, despite any possible issue with our "insincerity", the Germans adapt to life in other areas of America very well indeed; I don't know all the reasons why.)
[As for the various items - I can't see where you're going with this. One of them contrasts the British with Germans rather than lumping them together as having a shared participation in WWII. Two show British people being pleased with good service rather than, as we'd presumably expect, suspicious.]
AJC: I agreed to focus on Brits at the request of George. Seeming contradictions, as I have mentioned to George, are probably my fault for lumping contexts together--and for going off on a tangent or two. I am still a student of writing; an element of latitude on the part of the reader is requested.
In the Fairbanks episode, the central point is that Brits were uncomfortable with the in-your-face friendliness in Fairbanks. (The German tangent was introduced to provide contrast.)
In the other two episodes involving the customer service, the central point is that the Brits seemed INITIALLY surprised at genuinely-felt goodwill. (The final realization that the goodwill was genuine is a tangent I could have omitted.)
WRP, I want to thank you for bringing that site to the table; it's worth its weight in gold. For my own part, I now understand to a very great degree why we are seen as insincere. Have any of the rest of you read it? (George, I know you already have.) If so, what do you think about it?
AJC: I agreed to focus on Brits at the request of George. Seeming contradictions, as I have mentioned to George, are probably my fault for lumping contexts together--and for going off on a tangent or two. I am still a student of writing; an element of latitude on the part of the reader is requested.
In the Fairbanks episode, the central point is that Brits were uncomfortable with the in-your-face friendliness in Fairbanks. (The German tangent was introduced to provide contrast.)
In the other two episodes involving the customer service, the central point is that the Brits seemed INITIALLY surprised at genuinely-felt goodwill. (The final realization that the goodwill was genuine is a tangent I could have omitted.)
WRP, I want to thank you for bringing that site to the table; it's worth its weight in gold. For my own part, I now understand to a very great degree why we are seen as insincere. Have any of the rest of you read it? (George, I know you already have.) If so, what do you think about it?