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Is the Mandarin Chinese uniform everywhere?
>> J.C.
I remember that I heard some words of Japanese origin such as "basu" (bus) and "pento" (from "bento":lunch box) whereas in China one would say 公共汽车 and 盒饭. Can anyone tell me of other differences?
1.public bus,
2.lunch box,
Beijing Mandarin: 1.公共汽车 gonggong qiche, 2.盒饭 hefan,
Taibei Mandarin: 1.公车 gongche, 2.便当 biandang,
(Mandarin words was written in Pingyin.)
Amoy: 1.公交 kong-kau, 2.便当盒 pian-tong-ah,
Taiwanese: 1.公车 kong-chhia, 2.便当 pian-tong,
(Hokkien words was written in Peh-oe-ji.)
My roommate is from Kuala Lumpur, Mandarin is his first language, and he says that he has to adjust for people from China.
> Caspian, 礼拜的拼音是 'li bai', 是不是？
Mandarin pronunciation: li bai (礼拜)
Taiwanese pronunciation: le pai (礼拜)
> J.C.「礼拜的拼音是 'li bai', 是不是？」
对呀！但是，我想这个生词在中国被不使用！
Beijing Mandarin: xing qi (星期)
> Caspian, 在中国不使用，可是我的一个朋友是台湾人 - 有时候她说 ‘礼拜’，有时候他用 ‘星期’。在台湾都可以用吗？
Taiwanese: le pai (礼拜)
Taibei Mandarin: xing qi (星期) or li bai (礼拜)
It took me quite a time to figure out what the original poster wanted to ask.
Roughly speaking, yes!
>>公共汽车 and 盒饭
My uncle in Guangzhou says Guangzhou folks also say 巴士, a word from Hong Kong.
CSLPOD says 盒饭 is the food in the box, but a food box is 饭盒. I understand this intuitively, but personally the food and the box are the same to me: 飯盒. People in Hong Kong say to eat a 飯盒, literally "to eat a food box"...
>>"礼拜“ for week instead of 星期
Though I'm in no way Christian, both are the same to me. I can't even tell which I use more often than the other.
>>便当
True, but practically no one says this in Guangzhou and Hong Kong, even though, again, I understand this intuitively. Language use with Chinese characters tends to be quite transparent... even across the straits and provinces. In general, I'd regard this regional usage of the language as a whole.
That's why I say I have a lot of synonyms to use in Cantonese, because every Mandarin "may" be used in it, though the reverse is very often not true. There is so much overlapping that... learning Mandarin words is effortless for me. So, you see, linguistic similarity does reduce a language's difficulty significantly.
*In Guangzhou, loads of folks/// perhaps from somewhere else, use Mandarin ... and in most cases heavily accented Mandarin, practically everywhere. Even though I'm not a Guangzhou native by identity (though by birth...somehow), my own linguistic institution is that words may be borrowed rather liberally.
I'd say that, even for my own generation in Hong Kong, people tend to be somewhat bilingual on at least on a phrase level. A lot of folks here have very limited exposure to Mandarin, hence their terrible comprehension and speech, but at least we never have to learn Mandarin from scratch like a Francophone learning Italian (loads of barely recognizable words?). After all, the higher register you see, the more identical words you see in Cantonese/Mandarin discourse, at least in form.
> Caspian, 礼拜的拼音是 'li bai', 是不是？
> Mandarin pronunciation: li bai (礼拜)
Taiwanese pronunciation: le pai (礼拜)
> J.C. I remember that I heard some words of Japanese origin such as "basu" (bus) and "pento" (from "bento":lunch box) whereas in China one would say 公共汽车 and 盒饭. Can anyone tell me of other differences?
The logogram, pronunciation and word are different concepts especially in the Chinese languages.
1. Logograms and different Pronunciations:
for example;
logogram: 1, 2, 3,
English pronunciation: one, two, three,
Mandarin pronunciation: yi, er, san,
Taiwanese pronunciation: chit, lng, sann,
logogram: 星, 期, 礼, 拜, 公, 共, 汽, 车, 交, 盒, 饭, 便, 当,
English pronunciation: star 星, cycle 期, rite 礼, worship 拜, public 公, together 共, steam 汽, vehicle 车, deliver 交, box 盒, cooked rice 饭, convenient 便, assume 当,
Mandarin pronunciation: xing 星, qi 期, li 礼, bai 拜, gong 公, gong 共, qi 汽, che 车, jiao 交, he 盒, fan 饭, bian 便, dang 当,
Taiwanese Pronunciation: seng 星, ki 期, le 礼, pai 拜, kong 公, kiong 共, khi 汽, chhia 车, kau 交, ah 盒, png 饭, pian 便, tong 当,
Cantonese pronunciation:
Shanghainese pronunciation:
Hakkanese pronunciation:
Japanese pronunciation:
Korean pronunciation:
Vietnamese pronunciation:
etc.
2. Words:
Beijing Mandarin words: 星期 xingqi, 汽车 qiche, 盒饭 hefan,
Taibei Mandarin words: 星期 xingqi, 汽车 qiche, 礼拜 libai, 便当 biandang,
Amoy words: 礼拜 le-pai, 风车 hong-chhia, 便当盒 pian-tong-ah,
Taiwanese words: 礼拜 le-pai, 风车 hong-chhia, 便当 pian-tong,
The scholars said Taiwanese word "便当 pian-tong" is borrow from Japanese "pento" (from "bento":lunch box). Some scholars also said the Amoy word "便当盒 pian-tong-ah" was adopted by Amoy vernacular from Taiwanese "便当 pian-tong" in 1980s. But, the native Amoy old peoples said that the Amoy word "便当盒 pian-tong-ah" was used in Amoy vernacular more than 60 years ago, when that time they all were the children.
The word "便当 biandang" of Taibei Mandarin is borrow from Taiwanese word "便当 pian-tong".
cheer Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:21 am GMT
> Caspian, 礼拜的拼音是 'li bai', 是不是？
> Mandarin pronunciation: li bai (礼拜)
Taiwanese pronunciation: le pai (礼拜)
> J.C. I remember that I heard some words of Japanese origin such as "basu" (bus) and "pento" (from "bento":lunch box) whereas in China one would say 公共汽车 and 盒饭. Can anyone tell me of other differences?
The logogram, pronunciation and word are different concepts especially in the Chinese languages.
1. Logograms and different Pronunciations:
for example;
logogram: 1, 2, 3,
English pronunciation: one, two, three,
Mandarin pronunciation: yi, er, san,
Taiwanese pronunciation: chit, lng, sann,
logogram: 星, 期, 礼, 拜, 公, 共, 汽, 车, 交, 盒, 饭, 便, 当,
English pronunciation: star 星, cycle 期, rite 礼, worship 拜, public 公, together 共, steam 汽, vehicle 车, deliver 交, box 盒, cooked rice 饭, convenient 便, assume 当,
Mandarin pronunciation: xing 星, qi 期, li 礼, bai 拜, gong 公, gong 共, qi 汽, che 车, jiao 交, he 盒, fan 饭, bian 便, dang 当,
Taiwanese Pronunciation: seng 星, ki 期, le 礼, pai 拜, kong 公, kiong 共, khi 汽, chhia 车, kau 交, ah 盒, png 饭, pian 便, tong 当,
Cantonese pronunciation:
Shanghainese pronunciation:
Hakkanese pronunciation:
Japanese pronunciation:
Korean pronunciation:
Vietnamese pronunciation:
etc.
2. Words:
Beijing Mandarin words: 星期 xingqi, 汽车 qiche, 盒饭 hefan,
Taibei Mandarin words: 星期 xingqi, 汽车 qiche, 礼拜 libai, 便当 biandang,
Amoy words: 礼拜 le-pai, 风车 hong-chhia, 便当盒 pian-tong-ah,
Taiwanese words: 礼拜 le-pai, 风车 hong-chhia, 便当 pian-tong,
The scholars said Taiwanese word "便当 pian-tong" is borrow from Japanese "pento" (from "bento":lunch box). Some scholars also said the Amoy word "便当盒 pian-tong-ah" was adopted by Amoy vernacular from Taiwanese "便当 pian-tong" in 1980s. But, the native Amoy old peoples said that the Amoy word "便当盒 pian-tong-ah" was used in Amoy vernacular more than 60 years ago, when that time they all were the children.
The word "便当 biandang" of Taibei Mandarin is borrow from Taiwanese word "便当 pian-tong".
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There is no such thing as Taiwanese!
> Language use with Chinese characters tends to be quite transparent... even across the straits and provinces.
Although the languages use with Chinese characters tend to be quite transparent. But when the characters form a word with more than tow single logograms which meanings sometimes are different in the different languages.
English / Mandarin / Hokkien:
motor vehicle / 汽车 qiche / 风车 hong-chhia
aeroplane / 飞机 feiji / 飞船 pe-chun or poe-chun
paper kite / 风筝 fengzheng / 风吹 hong-chhe
etc.
In Mandarin, the words of "风车 fengche", "飞船 feichuan" , "风吹 fengchui" are mean the "windmill", "spacecraft" and "blow with the wind". They are very different in the meanings with Hokkienese words.
Mandarin / English:
风车 fengche / windmill
飞船 feichuan / spacecraft
风吹 fengchui / blow with the wind
>> Shuimo: "There is no such thing as Taiwanese!"
This speech is very similar as the mouths of Kuomintang's culture officers in the past old days (1950s - 1980s). In 1950s, KMT promoted the Mandarinization Policy in Taiwan and banned the term of Taiwanese be used by the peoples of island.
>>
>> Shuimo: "There is no such thing as Taiwanese!"
This speech is very similar as the mouths of Kuomintang's culture officers in the past old days (1950s - 1980s). In 1950s, KMT promoted the Mandarinization Policy in Taiwan and banned the term of Taiwanese be used by the peoples of island.
It's all language politics. I see no point of discussing that...
Taiwan people speak of Taiwanese and Orthodox Chinese characters. How are some people going to say "there's no such thing as Taiwanese and Orthodox..." ?
If you don't admit its existence, just as the PRC doesn't recognize the ROC as a state (and, technically, a "dynasty" that has ended in 1949 once and for all), it still doesn't follow that it doesn't exist at all. There are always people who DO admit....
(but of coz, that's their own business, not mine, either)
《《positive Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:04 am GMT
>> Shuimo: "There is no such thing as Taiwanese!"
This speech is very similar as the mouths of Kuomintang's culture officers in the past old days (1950s - 1980s). In 1950s, KMT promoted the Mandarinization Policy in Taiwan and banned the term of Taiwanese be used by the peoples of island.》》
There is Minnanhua and Mandarin Chinese in Taiwan, but no Taiwanese.
Kindly remember that!
<<Xie Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:27 pm GMT
Taiwan people speak of Taiwanese and Orthodox Chinese characters. How are some people going to say "there's no such thing as Taiwanese and Orthodox..." ?
If you don't admit its existence, just as the PRC doesn't recognize the ROC as a state (and, technically, a "dynasty" that has ended in 1949 once and for all), it still doesn't follow that it doesn't exist at all. There are always people who DO admit....
(but of coz, that's their own business, not mine, either)>>
Water enters your brain or are you nuts?
The fabricated term Taiwanese is just Minanhua in disguise, if you insisit on referring to the local and native language spoken in the island!
But do I have to remind you this: Taiwanese people, who are just part of the larger Chinese family, speak Mandarin Chinese! That is just reality, regardless of our admitting it or not!
of coz, there is no such thing as ROC in the world. Does the UN or the USA regard Taiwan as an independent state? Don't tell me names of some tiny little Latin American countries that have so called diplomatic ties with the so called ROC today!
How come China doesn't invade Taiwan? It seems ridiculous that people claim China to be a superpower and yet it cannot even retake a separatist region?
《《hog Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:19 pm GMT
How come China doesn't invade Taiwan? It seems ridiculous that people claim China to be a superpower and yet it cannot even retake a separatist region?》》
The question should be better framed this way "How come PR China doesn't reunite with Taiwan through force? "
Judging by the present situation of both sides of the Taiwan straights and the world at large as well as the deep involvement of the US in the Taiwan issue, a war between PR China and Taiwan runs counter to the interests of the Chinese people, including the Taiwanese people. So maintaining the status quo is the best policy. Is that clear?
Next question, plz!
BTW: The Chinese themselves even don't consider China as a superpower on a par with the US.
it can be considered as a would-be superpower at most!
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