spanish,french, english

Flipper   Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:10 am GMT
I wasn't explicitly asserting what composes a linguistic group. In the context of what I was writing early, my point was W. Europe languages, (yes, it is a loose and moot description) in a global sense, are more comparable to each other than extra-European ones: Asian was my earlier example.

When people pick out elements of a post, things can get taken out of context.
Flipper   Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:17 am GMT
"Between Romance and Germanic languages the etymology is not the same. These linguistics groups may have a common "ancestor", but it would be "indo-European". "

Well, what term would you use to describe how languages share many cognates?
Sander   Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:08 am GMT
=>Simple, replace "vocabulary" above with "etymological". <=

How far back do you want to go?

Indoeuropean?! The hypothetical 'proto language'?!
Guest   Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:37 pm GMT
" my point was W. Europe languages, (yes, it is a loose and moot description) in a global sense, are more comparable to each other than extra-European ones: Asian was my earlier example. "

The only common point of "West European" languages is the use of the latin alphabet, and even yhen a lot of eatern European countries use it too (Turquey included).
European languages as a whole have somme little common points, due to connection with indo-European (its existance is not even sure). What is true is that western European languages are not much similar together than with East European ones.
Sander   Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:50 pm GMT
=>Well, what term would you use to describe how languages share many cognates? <=

What cognates?! Daddy and Mummie?
Flipper   Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:47 pm GMT
Look up "cognate" in a dictionary then you might be able determine if "mummie" and "daddy" are cognates in other languages.

Cognates applying to vocabulary, of course. e.g. "possible", "chance" and "large" are cognates between French and English.
Flipper   Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:48 pm GMT
"The only common point of "West European" languages is the use of the latin alphabet, and even yhen a lot of eatern European countries use it too (Turquey included)."

Again, cognates, see previous post.
Sander   Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:03 pm GMT
=>Cognates applying to vocabulary, of course. e.g. "possible", "chance" and "large" are cognates between French and English. <=

Because those are French loans in English! This doesn't mean they're connected they don't even have the same meaning!
'chance' is 'hasard' in French and large, means 'wide' in French
bernard   Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:00 pm GMT
"The only common point of "West European" languages is the use of the latin alphabet, and even yhen a lot of eatern European countries use it too (Turquey included)."
Again, cognates, see previous post. "


They aren't cognates in common in the vocabulary of the romance and germanic languages. When they are, it is because they have been transported from one language to another.
In every language are used words of origins from other languages. "Tsunami " (a japanese word) is used in most languages. That doesn't mean that all these languages are related to Japanese. There is in Spanish a lot of words of arabic origins, that's absolutly doesn't mean that Spanish and Arabic are part of the same linguitic group.
Outside of english there are few words of latin origins in the germanic languages. As a french speaker I can tell you that for me Dutch is as foreign as Chinese or Arabic.
dear Sander   Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:04 pm GMT
'chance' is 'hasard' in French



Absolutly not, Chance has several meanings in France, we also have the word "hasard" which is different.


Don't speak about what you don't know...Please, can you?
Georges   Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:16 pm GMT
Both Sander and "Dear Sander" are right (well, partly).
Chance in English can translate as "risque", "possibilité", "hasard" and... "chance".

Chance in French can translate as "luck", "fortune", "hope", "fate", "lot", "fluke" and... "chance".
Sander   Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:47 pm GMT
dear Sander,

=>Don't speak about what you don't know...Please, can you? <=

Read Georges' post.And then read your 'wise' sentence again.
Guest   Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:54 am GMT
oui, en français on peut dire : 'j'ai une chance sur deux d'échouer à mon examen"

ce qui a la signification de "risk" et non pas "luck"
Flipper   Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:47 am GMT
"They aren't cognates in common in the vocabulary of the romance and germanic languages. When they are, it is because they have been transported from one language to another.
In every language are used words of origins from other languages. "Tsunami " (a japanese word) is used in most languages. That doesn't mean that all these languages are related to Japanese. There is in Spanish a lot of words of arabic origins, that's absolutly doesn't mean that Spanish and Arabic are part of the same linguitic group.
Outside of english there are few words of latin origins in the germanic languages. As a french speaker I can tell you that for me Dutch is as foreign as Chinese or Arabic. "

I'm not stating they are cognates in all Romance and Germanic languages. It was merely an example illustrating how W. European languages are more comparable than they are with say, your example, Japanese. Granted, certain W. Europeans are less compatible with one another. But I'm not performing an unnecessary study on the relationship of linguistic groups but stating the obvious, which should be obvious by now.

"Tsunami" is one of only few Japanese loanwords; by COMPARISON there are far more (true or false or partially true) cognates to be found between Western European languages that help the learner to adapt his knowledge from one to another. And naturally, use of the Latin alphabet is an added advantage to such a learner, one, that say a native Japanese person doesn't have.

All Germanic languages, including Dutch, have been touched by latinates, perhaps not to the degree that English has, but there is still something there for the learner to acquaint him/herself with. Finally, a speaker of one Romance language and one Germanic language will EASILY be at an advantage to learn another such language, compared to a non-European language speaker, who will find the going relatively "harder". Again, simple stuff.
Sander   Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:18 am GMT
Flipper,

Your native language has been touched by 'Dutch' as well, even the core vocabulary.But that aside,

=>Finally, a speaker of one Romance language and one Germanic language will EASILY be at an advantage to learn another such language, compared to a non-European language speaker, who will find the going relatively "harder". Again, simple stuff. <=

For English and French this might be true due to all the roman loans ,although I believe that "Giving milk to cats in their homes" is more common than "Providing lactose to felines in their domestics" the latter one would of course be easier to understand for you, a native French speaker,z