Why is greek such a funny language?

Pelasgus   Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:04 pm GMT
The main differentiation started after Alexander the Great conquered
the Western Asia until India and spread the greek language.(attic dialect)
The greek became "koine" (wich means common,koinós,koini,koinon)
a lingua franca(c.300 BC – AD 300)The new speakers started to simplify spelling and pronounciation.

This is the hellenistic period,the Greek Globalization.
In koine the gospels were written and the Old Testament was translated.
That 's why it is also called biblical.
Ion   Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:36 pm GMT
Yes, that's what I wanted to touch. The Hellenistic period which was indeed the momentum when the language started to take new characteristics. From what I know, this started already not longer but before Alexander, in his father's time. It was Filip's deam to create a new world...

Am I right?
Pelasgus   Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:48 pm GMT
Philip also had a desire to conquer the persian kingdom.
Athenian rhetor Isocrates urged him to unify all the Greeks
against the Persians,but he didn't prevent.
He was murdered.His son made it.

Actually the koine dialect started in Alexandria(Egypt)the capital of
hellenistic kingdom of Ptolemies.There was a multicultural city like the present New York.
Jews,Greeks,Arabs,Persians,Syrians were communicating in the international language of its time
So the language was simplified by the people
but the most of intelectuals,philosophers and scientists were insisting to write and speak in pure attic dialect.
Ion   Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:19 am GMT
Thank you, Pelasgus!

Is the today Katarevusa based on the attic dialect or on the classical ancient Greek language spoken by the people before Fillip’s has conquered the country?

It is saying that today, the language spoken by elite (intellectuals, politicians etc) is not easy to be understood by ordinary people. How much truth is in that? And why is like that?

Best regards!
Pelasgus   Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:32 am GMT
Attic is the dialect in which the most classical texts has been written

The purists of Alexandria used it as a paradigm and the katharevusa is based maily on that purist movement.

an example Βασίλισσα οὐδείς τῶν Ἀρχαίων εἶπεν, ἀλλὰ βασίλεια ἢ βασιλίς.

* "Basilissa (Queen) none of the Ancients said, but Basileia or Basilis"
today we say Vasilissa.

This stopped in 1976,when the greek state adopted officially
the demotic and started to write as they speak.

The periods of greek language

1.Mycenean Greek
2.Classical Greek(homeric,attic,doric,aeolic dialect)
3.Hellenistic Greek(koine)
4.Medieval Greek(Byzantine)close to koine language
5.Modern Greek (demotic,from demos people like democracy,the rule of the people)
Athena   Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:06 am GMT
@Ion(from Ionescu? :-)

i translate from a greek lexicon about a romanian word in greek

trayaska,τραγιάσκα < . [epifon]. traiasca (= “Hurrah!”).
The word emanates from Romanian [exclamation,epiphonema]
“traiasca Grecia” (= Long live Greece) that was accompanied by throwing the hats up of Romanian students,who came in Athens for tourism around 1900
. From that,Athenians believed that Romanians called so their hat.

So this hat
is called τραγιάσκα,trayasca in greek
What is the name of the hat in romanian?
Ion   Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:48 pm GMT
Thank you, Pelasgus! Yes I know that the people are speaking dimotiki, but I would like to know how difficult for normal demos is, to understand katarevusa, because, for example for an ordinary Romanian, it is no problem to understand the literary spoken/written Romanian.

@ Athena.

Interesting story, isn't it? Now, after you told it, I kind of vaguely remember that I’ve read once about it.

No, rather Ionescu from Ion, than vice versa. Hut in Romanian is PALARIE- of unknown origin. (It is the object with margins similar to the ones what caw-boys are wearing).

Yes, you are right, TRAIASCA means Long Live, indeed, but I liked the meaning taken by the Greeks! See, haw a language creates new words or gives new connotation to the existing words. Traiasca came from the Slavic TRAJITI.

We have borrowed a lot of Greeks words as well (who in this world didn't do it !!!) because of their beautiful sounds and representation-power of expression. For example, Romanian, unlike the other Romance languages uses for Rose(s), the Greek Loan TRANDAFIR (Triantafilas - 3 files! - by the way, I like Ana Vissis song - Triandafila...).
Pelasgus   Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:58 pm GMT
One who has graduated from Gymnasium can understand it.
One who has only went to demoticó(elementary school)he will understand
the half.
The koine dialect is being used in the hymnes by the orthodox church.

This hat (trayaska) is called "Flat cap" in english,you can see it on the head
of golf-players.

Triánta(τριάντα) + Fílla Φύλλα(leaves)=Triantáfyllo(Triandafilo-a,in plural)


it is also in albanian trëndafil.

Has a rose 30 leaves? :-)

I like romanian traditional music and modern one is good.
"Torneró" rocks.Wil you have a romanophone song in next eurovision?

Noapte buna.
Pelasgus   Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:02 pm GMT
30=trianta=trei zeci 3=tria=trei
Pelasgus   Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:48 pm GMT
Pălărie from latin pileum,from ancient greek pilos.(πίλος)
This is an example of katharevusa.
In the old formal greek,the teachers were saying to pupils
Φόρεσε τον πίλο σου.Fórese ton pilo sou. Put on your hat.

In those years(50,60)the pupils had hat and uniform.

But the popular,demotic,greek word for hat is Kapelo(Kαπέλο)
from italian cappello,from latin cappillus(hair),caput(head)
+pilus(a hair,)

So you use a word more close to ancient greek than us. :-)
Ion   Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:13 pm GMT
Thank you Pelasgus! I understood everything you've explained.

Flat cap - is SAPCA (read SHAPCA), in Romanian...

"Has a rose 30 leaves?" - Maybe at the beginning, before we started to develop and modify new species...

Did you like Tornero? ...I like IARBA VERDE DE ACASA, ( the green grass from home) by Mircea Rusu's Band. It is a litle ethno and the words are very touching...(especially for the people who left the country for good)

Take care!
Ion   Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:21 pm GMT
Pelasgus, I didn't know about PALARIE'S origin!

Probably the Romanian student mentioned before by Athena, was trying to remind you the word you have forgotten...(I'm jocking!)

Lot's of things I learned today! I appreciate you help, Pelasgus!

All the best!

P.S. Cap = head,in Romanian as well
mike   Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:31 am GMT
isn't better to ask this question this way: "Why Greek is such a funny language?"

is it?
Telma   Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:10 pm GMT
By the rythm,i prefer the first,although incorrect..
Ion   Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:11 pm GMT
I prefer another topic because the way this question has been put, was just stupid. There is no language 'Funny" but just people without ear!