German or Italian???

Lou   Friday, September 26, 2003, 14:53 GMT
By the way, for anyone interested, Afrikaans isn't a child's Dutch. It developed from Dutch, yes, but is a language on it's own, with grammar and literature. Now is now, never mind the past. Many people, of all population groups, do in fact, speak Afrikaans as their Mother tongue. Look I'm South African. My Dad came from an Afrikaans-speaking family, and my Mom from an English-speaking family. I went to an English-medium school, which meant that English was my main language subject and Afrikaans my second language. Unfortunately, at the time, I didn't have a choice of an African language, which children do nowadays, and which is only right.
If my little friend Jonathan and his mates were suddenly forbidden to speak Afrikaans, they would have a hard time, because that's what they grew up with. These children grew up in a Coloured community. And the Afrikaans they speak has its own colourful character. In fact, I sometimes have to ask them to speak slowly or to repeat, so that I can understand, although I'm fluent in both English and Afrikaans, as well as being able to speak German, Italian, a smattering of French, two or three words in Spanish and two or three words in Portuguese. By the way, my travel guide tells me that over 200 million people in the world speak Portuguese.
Languages change as circumstances change. We don't have any control over what happened anywhere in the past, and I really believe that respect for each other is the order of the day, which means respecting the way a person happens to express him/herself, no matter how or where the means of expression came to be.
It really worries me when people are so snotty about different languages throughout the world. How are they anyway, and how do they treat other people, which is my criteria for deciding whether
Lou   Friday, September 26, 2003, 14:59 GMT
Sorry, got carried away, and there are some mistakes towards the end of my message. Meant to say, 'who are they anyway, and how do they treat other people, which is my criteria for deciding whether or not to have contact with someone after a first meeting.
Jamie On   Friday, September 26, 2003, 15:19 GMT
To Clark - you seem to know, what are some good books on South Africa, history and language?

--Thanks
Clark   Friday, September 26, 2003, 16:03 GMT
Try:

Modern South Africa (Philip Gay is the author)
The White Tribe of Africa

These are really great books. The first one is a recent publication; 2002. The ending was a bit disappointing though. The second one was published in 1982, and is a great source for information about the history of events leading up to Apartheid. As the title says, this is about the white people in the country, so there is not much information on the rest of the people.

Lou, I agree; Afrikaans is a regular language. But I am sure that if you speak to a Dutchman, he will think you speak a weird version of his language; Dutch.
adam   Wednesday, October 01, 2003, 09:07 GMT
what other countries speak gearman other than germany
Tremmert   Wednesday, October 01, 2003, 10:59 GMT
For quite a while German was the common language in Europe, like English is in the world now.

Clark, I am not more Afrikaner than British. I think I said that a fairly small percentage of my ancestry is British, but South Africa, like countries such as Australia and the US has long been a melting pot of immigrants from different countries - we have Greek, Italian, Jewish, Chinese etc communities. Of course Afrikaners probably form the largest white community in the country but in my case most of my family came to SA a few generations ago from north-eastern European countries.

My point still holds though that I speak English which only a few of my great-grandparents would have spoken, and I have heard almost nothing of the languages the rest of my great-grandparents would have known.
Lou   Wednesday, October 01, 2003, 11:56 GMT
Clark, I agree that a Dutchman would think my Afrikaans is a weird version of his language, but only if he knows nothing about South Africa.
Jamie On   Wednesday, October 01, 2003, 15:31 GMT
Thanks for note Clark.
Clark   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 05:24 GMT
Lou, and I am sure that an Afrikaner would think that Dutch sounds "proper." I get this all the time from my friends. They hear British English and they all say that it sounds "proper."
Clark   Friday, October 03, 2003, 05:18 GMT
I have always wondered if Arnol speaks German anymore, and from this article, I think that he still does. I am not totally sure, but I thik that Arnold was interviewed in German as some of what he says just sounds like he was talking in German when the interview was taking place.

http://bz.berlin1.de/kino/arch/bl14dayint.htm
Jamie On   Friday, October 03, 2003, 09:13 GMT
Haha, that's funny that he doesn't dub himself! He was on TV in a German advert and his line was "Mix it, baby!" in English.
Lou   Friday, October 03, 2003, 09:54 GMT
Clark, I wonder about people who classify languages as 'proper'. From my point of view, every language or dialect used anywhere in the world by any group, because that is the way it has developed in that particular part, is proper. I went to South East England two years ago, and was absolutely amazed that I had difficulty understanding people, because of the sounds used in that part, but that's the way they speak there, and so for me, that is proper.
Ms.Smith   Friday, October 03, 2003, 15:29 GMT

Hi everyone!I also would like to share my opinion with you!I am studying French and Italian and I studied German 2 years ago,but I gave it up because I didn't like its awful and rough pronunciation.....Now I am really enjoying studying French and Italian and I am very glad that I have made such a good choice!!!!!!!!
By the way,before studying Italian I didn't like it and also I didn't treat to the italians respectively,but when I was forced to stay with the group of italians,I really knew them better and that situation changed my life.I admire italian language and advice you to try it!!!!!!
I would also like to add that the second official language of Canada is French,the first one is English.So I think it's not useless to study French when you can speak English,because knowing the language of those people you communicate often, gives you the oppotunity to understand their culture and thoughts better!(especially,it's required in communication with italians....)
Clark   Friday, October 03, 2003, 19:05 GMT
Well, Ms. Smith, do not go to Qu├ębec with that attitude towards French--you will find it hard to survive.

Lou, I have never really used the term "proper" when talking about language because I have studied about languages enough to know that each language has its own dialects and accents, and in each place that a language/dialect/accent is spoken, that is what is proper there. I always have to chuckle when I hear people say, "this language sounds more proper."
Tremmert   Friday, October 03, 2003, 19:32 GMT
I think Ms Smith is a troll. Nobody else would say something like 'I gave it up because I didn't like its awful and rough pronunciation' about someone else's language.