Sara   Saturday, January 31, 2004, 11:17 GMT
Guilhem, how do you read Occitan? Is it phonetic?
vincent   Saturday, January 31, 2004, 17:35 GMT
Adieu Guilhem!
Aital i a un occitan per aqui.De quina region sès colèga?
nicolas   Monday, February 02, 2004, 09:03 GMT
My parents are from the Cévennes, they use many words in Occitan of course. But how can you read or write Occitan?
Guilhem   Tuesday, February 03, 2004, 01:01 GMT
Adieu Vincent!
Demòri Tolosa. E tu? D’ont siás?

Sara, occitan can be phonetic depending on the dialect that is spoken and what region a speaker is from. Written provençal is more phonetic than written languedocien because it was purposely conformed to the way it is spoken. But languedocien is considered the classic model that is used as the language of instruction usually. But even within languedocien there are regional differences.

In reading Occitan, the basics to remember is that "o" is always pronounced [u] unless written as "ò", final "a" is pronounced [O] unless written as "à", and "u" is pronounced like the french "u" [y]. Final "r" and final "n" are silent, and sometimes final "s" also. Of course there are many more rules but these are just the basics.

Nicolas, in france there are many books and tapes on learning occitan. You should pick some of these up so you can impress your parents with your knowledge of occitan.
Nicolas   Tuesday, February 03, 2004, 08:40 GMT
THANK YOU GUILHEM. Can you understand this ? I don't know if it is the right spell.

padel (what do you think it is)

Fai tso


cafe con lei
Guilhem   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 04:31 GMT
padel - this is a sport similar to tennis

fai tso - how is "tso" pronounced? Like "cho"? "Cho" is an abbreviated form of "chaud". So "fai cho" means "done/made hot". But this is not so much occitan but french ("Il fait cho!")

vaca (pronounced "baco") - cow

cafe con lei - "con" is espanhol. In occitan it is "cafè amb lèit/lach*" or "cafè al lèit/lach*" - coffee with milk

*in certain regions of occitania, final "-ch" has transformed to "-it":

lach - lèit - lait (fr) - milk
nuèch - nuèit - nuit (fr) - night
uèch - uèit - huit (fr) - eight
fach - fait - fait (fr) - (he/she) does/makes
vincent   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 09:09 GMT
Sorry this short message is in occitan.

Adieu Guilhem,

Ieu demoro dins la region parisenca mas la familha de mon paire es dau Velai (Léger-Nauta 43).Sio un defensor de la lenga nòstra mas saps plan que es fòrça dificil poder trobar qualqu'un aub qui la parlar.Ieu aprenguèro l'occitan quand aviai 15 annaas.Tu sès de Tolosa,quina fortuna! Aital pòdes estudiar l'occitan a l'Universitat de Tolosa si vòls.A Paris sonque i a classes optativas mas pas cap de cursus complet.En mai, ai l'impression de parlar una lenga mòrta,molta gent "s'en fiche complètement" de lhur lenga (ieu parlo pel cas dau Velai ont la lenga a quasi totalment desaparegut).Coma son las cosas a Tolosa?

For the others, this message tells about the difficulties for finding today occitan locutors because the language is dying.When there are speakers,they aren't native speakers (native speakers are very old and have no conscience they speak occitan,they call it "patois").I learned occitan for myself when I was 15.I know that in Toulouse it's possible to study occitan in order to become professor of it and Isaid for that Guilhem is a lucky man.The problem in France is that most people don't care about their language diversity (on the contrary of the spanish situation) and our languages are slowly dying out.
nicolas   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 09:10 GMT
padel is poëlle in fact. Con exists in occitan, i think there are a lot of reginals versions of occitan. Wich have been mixed with some patois.
nicolas   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 09:29 GMT
"al" is intersting because it's the same in intalian al latte, i know occitan was spoken in a part of Italy but i thought it was more influenced by spanish.

At least how is it possible to have one official occitan when you know Occitan was spoken in the south of france (all the half) which includes Auvergne for example which must be i suppose different from Spain.
nicolas to vincent   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 09:31 GMT
it's not they don't care in paris about their language, but in Paris l'occitan n'existait pas, Langue d'oïl oblige.
nicolas   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 09:37 GMT

i have been at shool for 3 years in Le Puy en Velay where it was possible to learn Occitan
Lavoisel   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 10:15 GMT
Hello, Nicolas, Vincent and Guilhem.

I don't speak Occitan, but I find this language beautiful and easy to understand.
I agree with you, France has a tendency to see its republican sanctuary has a uniformising machine. Fifty years ago, it was "défendu de cracher par terre et de parler Breton" (forbidden to sput on the floor and speak the dialect of Brittany) at school, and now it will be forbidden to wear a veil.
Cultural diversity doesn't seem to be considered as a part of the republican school. This is what happens when your vision is too universalist.
nicolas   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 10:33 GMT
to Lavoisel, the veil is another thing. Because there has been many massacres with religion in french history religious signs are unallowed at school. You can be catholic, jew, protestant musulman or whatever you want you do not have the right to show it at scholl. I personnally think it is a good thing. The state (so education at scholl) and religion are 2 different things. this is the problem with the veil, if they have the right to wear it, why not hte others. That's a part of the french culture (some other countries are laic). I don't say other countries are wrong, but in france you don't have to be in a protestant scholl or a catholic one because of your origins (like it is in Scotland for example). No one will ask you to swear on the bible on a tribunal. I don't deny the fact there are some problems in France with integration with arabians. Like it has been the same with italians, portuguese and belgians.
nicolas   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 10:45 GMT
At least if you know french history (i don't say you don't know it), it was not only the bretons who were unallowed to speak their own language (breton is a language and not a dialect), it was the same for the others provençaux, auvergnats, basques, corses, flammands etc. France is an artificial country where people were unable to understand each others. The only to make it possible was the french. Good or bad is not the question, that was a (between some others may be) but when you compare some other countries french do not hate each others (a part some assholes), that's not the case in Belgium, Yougoslavia (which has an history really similar to France) or some other countries.
nicolas   Wednesday, February 04, 2004, 10:48 GMT
i forgot a word : ""that was a "way" (between some others may be)""