Brasilian or Brasilian Portuguese ?

Huchu   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:06 GMT
Sander : it's no use, logic has nothing to do with all this. Brasilians hate speaking Portuguese, so they do their best to change it as they speak. That's the thing.

Sorry Rui, but if you know this, why did you open the topic? What did you expect? Something different than a preaching of hate?
I think that one of the main reasons why Brazilians distance from the Portuguese and Portugal lies in the megalomaniac mentality of many Brazilians. Portugal is not something they can use for their megalomania, but something to be ashamed of.
Sander   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:06 GMT
=>it's no use, logic has nothing to do with all this. Brasilians hate speaking Portuguese<=

Must be terrible,speaking a language you don't want to speak and having an almost idiotic desire for your own accent to become a language...
Wanessa   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:07 GMT
Rui, tu tá criando a maior anguzada. Favor picar a mula.
LALaw   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:09 GMT
a gente num tá danu bola pra portugays
eh uma língua bein feioza
a gente pode andá matanu ela kwandu kizé i komu kizé
Sander   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:10 GMT

Its a forum rule that your messages are in English (your not an exception) and IF you provide a sample of another language,you provide a translation as well...
Wanessa   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:11 GMT
Ok Sender, no prob dude
JGreco   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:14 GMT
I just finished watching Link TV's World Music show and a Portuguses Fado song came on. I have a general knowledge of the language and I can understand it since a quarter of my family is Brazilian. The song was of course in European Portuguese so I sat and listened to song. The funny thing was that I hardly could understand any of what they were saying. It to me soumded like they were talking German or some non-Romance language. If anybody has any knowldge of this or also has noticed this please write.
Jacyra   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:15 GMT
All soap operas and movies from Portugal are dubbed (or subtitled) into Brazilian Portuguese when shown in Brazil since we don't understand spoken Continental Portuguese (especially the standard version of it, which is based on vowel-dropping Lisbon speech)


written: EXCELENTE
is sounds like

1. eh-seh-lehn-tchee in Brazilian Portuguese (4 syllables)
2. shlent in Continental Portuguese (1 syllable)


written: MENINOS
is sounds like

1. meeNEEnoos in Brazilian Portuguese (3 syllables)
2. mninsh in normal Lisboan Portuguese (1 syllable)

Portuguese people do not pronounce unstressed vowels normally (they pronounce it as shwa's in slow speech, but again, they rarely speak slowly...) so this makes it very difficult for us Brazilians to understand it...

We have mantained the classical pronunciation of Portuguese language which is more vowel-friendy (reduction of vowels in Continental Portuguese started in 18 century...)... Furthermore, we normally avoid difficult to pronounce consonantal sequences by inserting an i (pronounced ee):

we write RITMO, but we pronounce it
HEE-tchee-mo (or HEE-tchee-moo)

we write ABSOLUTO, but we pronounce it

we write ADVOGADO, but we pronounce it

Brazilian Portuguese is vowel-friendy (like Italian or Estonian)
and Continental Portuguese is consonant-friendly (like Russian, Polish or Arab) so they sound pretty different.

I've read in the Folha de São Paulo newspaper that a Brazilian can more easily get used to Argentinian Spanish than Continental Portuguese...It takes us 2 weeks for Argentinian Spanish and 4 weeks for Continental Portuguese.
PeaceOnEarth   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:17 GMT
Well, to make some things clear:

Colloquial Brazilian Portuguese uses:
1. Brazilian pronunciation
2. Brazilian spelling
3, Brazilian grammar

Formal Brazilian Portuguese uses:
1. Brazilian pronunciation
2. Brazilian spelling
3. Continental Portuguese grammar (but with many hypercorrections)

cantar 'to sing' (present indicative)

colloquial brazilian portuguese:
1. eu canto, (vo)cê canta, ele canta
a gente canta, (vo)cês cantam, eles cantam

(rural accents/dialects do it like this:

eu canto, (vo)cê/tu canta, ele canta
nós / a gente canta, (vo)cês canta, eles canta)

2. formal, written brazilian portuguese:
eu canto, você canta, ele canta,
nós cantamos, vocês cantam, eles cantam

(literary usage:

eu canto, tu cantas, ele canta,
nós cantamos, vós cantais, eles cantam)

Brazilian children DO learn Standard Portuguese grammar
(based on Continental Portuguese)at school, as if it were a foreign language for them, but they never introduce these forms in their normal speech and informal writing, they use it only in formal writing (just like Swiss children, who learn Hochdeutch (=Standard German) @ schools, but they don't like it, and never use in in their speech or informal writing, only in very formal written style this ''standard/formal''language is used)...

This situation (in both Brazil and Germanic Switzerland) is known as DIGLOSSIA. It has nothing to do with ''education crisis''. People there never use ''standard'' language normally, since it is not their mother tongue. Keeping Hochgerman (in Switzerland) and Standard Portuguese (in Brazil) as official language is a matter of tradition. Swiss people and Brazilians don't like foreigners saying they are ''lazy and don't care about the standard language''. Both Swiss and Brazilians adore their dialect/vernacular and everyone should accept this fact.

No ''education'' can erase hundreds of years of Swiss German and Brazilian Portuguese developent. Standard German and Brazilian Portuguese are not mother tongues of anyone in these countries - the dialect is strongly kept as one of the features of their identity.

Yes, it is true Swiss and Brazilian newspapers use the standard language. But this is a FORMAL, WRITTEN REGISTER. Do not expect anyone to talk like this. So please stop saying: ''You Swiss/Brazilians use sub-standard forms of language, you are backward, you should prefer the correct language used in famous Swiss/Brazilian newspapers''.

Foreign language learner should be familiar with all registres of a language. If not, he/she might develop linguistic prejudice towards real
native speakers usage. (Why is that no Swiss German or Brazilian Portuguese speakers use the ''standard'' language when they speak? is a matter of linguistics, diacronic linguistics, sociolinguistics... and it has nothing to do with ''Swiss/Brazilians killing German/Portuguese language'' for ''desobeying the grammar rules'').
Huchu   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:17 GMT
JGreco: I have a general knowledge of the language and I can understand it since a quarter of my family is Brazilian

which language?LOL
Jo   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:19 GMT
Será que você não é só uma suburbana que quer falar a todo custo portugues errado só para dizer : olhe como sou diferente.
Qualquer um que escreve como você disse que tem que escrever, perdia logo o seu emprego no Brasil.( Se for contratado para fazer correspondência)

E mais um: Afrikaans é muito mais diferente do Holandes do que PB do PE. Eu sei porque me entendo nas 4 .
Não faça afirmações sem saber do que você esta falando.
Guarde o seu odio para as coisas que realmente te façam mal ou que fazem mal ao Brasil.
HappyCar   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:21 GMT
-You know I love you- in Brazilian Portuguese:


Você sabe que eu te amo.

(colloquial dialectal/regional:

Você sabe que eu lhe amo.
Tu sabe que eu te amo.
Tu sabe que eu lhe amo.)

both colloquial and written:

Você sabe que eu amo você.

formal usage:

O senhor sabe que eu amo o senhor. (if the loved person is male).
A senhora sabe que eu amo a senhora. (if the loved person is female).

formal written (obsolete):

Você sabe que eu o/a amo.
(o = if the loved one is male; a = if the loved one is female).

old literary usage:

Sabes que te amo.
Brazilian Girl   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:23 GMT
well i'll say it in portuguese 'cause i'm not in the mood of write in english, who knows portuguese will understand who doesnt, i'm so sorry...algumas coisas que a ciklada disse estao certas outras nao, por exemplo, sobre dizer q VOCÊ SABE QUE EU TE AMO, eu posso dizer isso e posso escrever tambem, isso nao ta errado, desculpa se eu tiver entendido errado oq vc quis dizer Ciklada, me corriga se eu estiver errada, realmente eh verdade q no Brasil nós, brasileiros, temos q aprender varios tempos verbais q nos nem usamos, q só em Portugal eles usam, acho isso uma falta de tempo e burrice mesmo pq a gente nunca vai usar esse tipo de linguagem e só desperta o desgosto pela materia, pq num presta mesmo nem deveriam ensinar esses tempos verbais que nós aprendemos na escola, mais tudo bem, bom era só isso q eu queria dizer mesmo, foi só pq eu nao entendi pq a Cickala disse q a frase VOCÊ SABE QUE EU TE AMO, seria considerada errada por professores brasileiros. obrigada

*Some of the things that Ciklada said are true, others aren't. For example, with regard to the phrase "Você sabe que eu te amo"...I can speak and write this way. It's not considered wrong. (Forgive me if I misunderstood what you wanted to say, Ciklada. Please correct me if I'm wrong). It's true, in Brazil we have to learn various verb tenses that we Brazilians don't use, but are used only in Portugal. I think this is not only silly, but a waste of time since no one is going to speak this way in his/her everyday life and it only causes one to dread learning the material. It's really not worth it for them to teach this in school.

Any way that's all I wanted to say. It was only because I didn't understand what Ciklada meant when she said 'Você sabe que eu te amo' would be considered wrong by Brazilian teachers. Thank you."*
Wanessa   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:25 GMT
Jo, suburbãna é tu. Eu moro na Barra (RJ)
JO IS GRINGA   Friday, May 20, 2005, 22:30 GMT
Jo is visibly NOT Brazilian, but a heavily accented GRINGA.
Sorry, you will never pass as Brazilian :)