Do British people understand American slangs?

Travis   Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:27 am GMT
The matter, though, is that a lot of such forms sound very strange in Real Life to even myself as an American. The matter is that many of them are either highly socially and or regionally circumscribed in nature or simply highly dated, and are not things I would expect anyone I know in Real Life to say here. Furthermore, they are often associated with speech varieties which have less prestige than you may think. Take "dude" for instance - such is really a marker of Californian English dialects in particular, and sounds very weird coming out of the mouth of anyone not from California (to the point that it sounds like they are just desperately trying to sound "cool" or whatnot). And while one may think of Californian English as sounding "cool" or as being prestigious due to its frequent use in movies and TV shows made in the US, it actually has no extra prestige associated with it here in Real Life (with more extreme forms of such actually often being made fun of). Likewise with many forms from AAVE, which would sound very strange in Real Life when not spoken by someone who natively speaks AAVE, and would not really make them sound "cool" at all.
Pub Lunch   Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:38 am GMT
Damian - you seem to suggest that "Movies" is an Americanism, and a week ago I'd agree but mate, I was watching a film recently from 1967 with Hayley Mills (don't ask why) and they used the term "movies" a lot which surprised the hell out of me. Surely the prevalence of the American media wasn't such that us Britons were being Americanised even in the 60's?? Apparently it was the Irish that came up with that word (not 100% though). So geezer, is "movie" an Americanism?? Yeah, on second thoughts it probably is.

You know, I think people really underestimate the influence of US English on British English I really do. The two most recent Americanisms I heard came out of my 12 year old sisters mouth - "sick" to mean "good" and "my bad" to mean "my fault". What on earth??

I think it has got to the point now where British English really is beginning to be pretty much white-washed. I'm sure we will always retain a certain degree of our unique dialect and may even actually invent a new word here and there (as opposed to importing the 'ready made' variety from our American friends) but it is obvious to me that our language/dialect is being dictated now not by the speakers of it by speakers who live in an entirely different country.

If it was a word here or there then I wouldn't see a problem - but it REALLY isn't. I'm all for importing words which enrich the language, the American "24/7" being a prime example (the nearest we had/have is "day in day out" or "week in week out"). But the thing is the majority of these new words we are adopting from the US are just not needed. They merely serve to replace perfectly good words of our own that we already had merely making it the language here more American, thereby ensuring that the uniqueness of our take on English is being all but extinguished.

Sure, new words are invented that replace old ones in any language - languages change. But shouldn't changes to a language be in the main, by the speakers of that dialect?? This isn't happening here anymore I’m sure of it, and so far I have only been referring to all the American words we are adopting - just wait until I get started on how Americanised our pronunciations have become!!!!!!! Nah, I'll leave that one.

Oh but I must say that thanks to the rise of the Internet and Microsoft our spelling is next to go (it'll take some time but watch, just like in Australia it will be acceptable to use British or American spellings in our schools and once that happens the American version will take over) I am seeing evidence of this already. Bye bye British English.

By the way, I have nothing against American English at all, it is a great language and if it was being extinguished like my mine is I'd be just as cheesed off (well, almost).
Pub Lunch   Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:41 am GMT
Sorry, as ever, for the errors.
Pub Lunch   Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:00 pm GMT
Ok, just before I log off and while I'm on the subject I would like to add one more thing.

To really show the extent to which British English is moving closer to American English consider this. In England we don't have "periods" we have "full stops" yet more often than not nowadays I will hear people say "period" as opposed to "full stop" when meaning "end off" at the end of a sentence. As in a sentence along the lines of "I'm not going out with you - full stop".

Why in God's name would we ever use "period" when it is not (or rather wasn't) a feature of our language???? When people say this sometimes I'll actually ask them what a period is and they ALWAYS have no idea (I have to say that I only know what it is due to this site).

Also, at the moment in the media there is a lot of talk regarding skinny women and size zero's, but there is one problem with this - in Britain we DON'T have size zeros!! Why the hell would we talk about a clothing size that we don't have here??? AARRGGGHHHH!!!!
Guest   Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:51 pm GMT
The dot that indicates the end of a sentence was called a "period" in the Britain before it was ever called a "full stop". Many American words and/or expressions are actually older and in many ways more "traditional" than their modern BE equivalents.
Guest   Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:59 pm GMT
There is no such word in the English language as "slangs". It is an uncountable noun like "information" or "news" and is always singular.
Guest   Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:15 pm GMT
<<To really show the extent to which British English is moving closer to American English >>

I was under the impression that most people thought US and UK English are moving further apart? Even in the US, aren't the various dialects drifting away from each other, so that some time from now, they will diverge into mutually unintelligible languages?
Skippy   Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:41 pm GMT
"At the end of the day" is used in America, as is "in the end" or "all in all" etc. And the tendency of languages is to grow farther apart... At one point American and British English were exactly the same. If not in vocabulary, the grammar, pronunciation, and semantics of both languages have continued to diverge and will continue to do so.

Although I imagine Americans would have no intention of the renaming the language American (or anything else for that matter)...
Badjack   Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:03 pm GMT
<<I was under the impression that most people thought US and UK English are moving further apart? Even in the US, aren't the various dialects drifting away from each other, so that some time from now, they will diverge into mutually unintelligible languages?>>

Actually it's the opposite. In the US we watch news programs in California where the person announcing the news may be in New York or Atlanta. From movies to music to television, we're brought closer to people in other parts of the country where there may be a different accent. So a kid in Ravenswood, West Virginia watches television shows that take place in Beverly Hills and as a result grows up with a Valley Girl accent. If anything the media probably produces less variation in accents across the United States.

Others here may be more knowledgeable than I, but I don't believe we really have "dialects" per se in the US, perhaps with the exception of Gullah.
Pub Lunch   Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:12 pm GMT
<<The dot that indicates the end of a sentence was called a "period" in the Britain before it was ever called a "full stop". Many American words and/or expressions are actually older and in many ways more "traditional" than their modern BE equivalents. >>

Yeah that's right my friend apparently we did, the same also goes for the use of "I guess" as well as "Fall" to mean "Autumn".

But you have missed the point completely mate, and that is that we STOPPED using them, our language, as the years went by changed and these uses (to name but a few) fell out of use here. That they were maintained by Americans and that they have now been 're-introduced' back into our spoken language makes them completely and utterly an Americanism.

I also disagree with the notion that our languages are moving apart, in my opinion that is completely ludicrous. But I am certainly no linguistic expert and if this is what the experts are saying then I am certainly no-one to argue.

But the bottom line is that I understand Americans far better in 2008 than I did, say, in 1988 (when I first met some American relatives - man I remember having some mix-ups with my cousins who were roughly the same age) and I bet I'll know even more about their language in 2018. Of course I do realise that at no point were British and Americans unintelligible from one another.
Travis   Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:16 pm GMT
At least in North America, the real change is not the general levelling of dialects across the board, but rather the levelling of dialects at the local level occurring simultaneously with the divergence of dialects at the regional level. The driver behind this is not the media at all, but rather population becoming more mobile than it was in the past; people who at one time would likely have lived in the same village their entire lives are now more likely to live in a greater region, and hence there is greater contact between individuals speaking different *but related* dialects.

A good example of this is while many local dialects along the eastern seaboard are being lost and watered down into more general regional dialects, there are simultaneously significant regional-level sound changes going on within NAE dialects, such as the NCVS and the California Vowel Shift. The latter is quite notable as it affects dialects which were much closer together just 50 years go than they are today, as the modern dialects spoken in California are descended essentially from Midwestern dialects brought there through internal immigration around the end of WW2.
Travis   Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:22 pm GMT
>>But the bottom line is that I understand Americans far better in 2008 than I did, say, in 1988 (when I first met some American relatives - man I remember having some mix-ups with my cousins who were roughly the same age) and I bet I'll know even more about their language in 2018. Of course I do realise that at no point were British and Americans unintelligible from one another.<<

Mind you though that there is a major difference between becoming more familiar with other dialects and actually speaking closer to them. For instance, I myself am far more familiar with other English dialects than I was in, say, elementary school, but at the same time I likely actually speak *further* from most other English dialects today than then (due to effectively abandoning trying to speak in a GA-like fashion away from home due to finding such to actually not really have any social prestige on a local level amongst people of my age group).
Pub Lunch   Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:55 pm GMT
<<At least in North America, the real change is not the general levelling of dialects across the board, but rather the levelling of dialects at the local level occurring simultaneously with the divergence of dialects at the regional level. The driver behind this is not the media at all, but rather population becoming more mobile than it was in the past; people who at one time would likely have lived in the same village their entire lives are now more likely to live in a greater region, and hence there is greater contact between individuals speaking different *but related* dialects.>>

Oh absolutely Travis, the same thing applies here. You only need to see (or rather hear) the effect this has had on our beautiful West country dialects, put simply the Cornish folk don't sound quite so... er.. Cornish any more!

It is probably the best part of England to live and hence, the influx of migrants from other parts of the British Isles has pretty much rendered the accent and the dialect there obsolete (same goes for Devon and Somerset).

Of course, as you imply, in the place of one accent another will surely spring up and a newer accent has formed in the Western counties of England (one that's not quite as nice mind, just think Pirates and you pretty much have the 'old' Cornish/West Country accent). Actually, obsolete is a tad harsh, some of the original pre-war accents do survive amongst the older generations and the farm folk (who don't tend to mingle as much!).
Travis   Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:18 pm GMT
One important thing to remember here is that the UK is a far smaller place than English-speaking North America. I myself primarily interact only with people from the Midwest and Inland North in my daily life, aside from some Russians and like who I work with, and even then most of them are from either Wisconsin or the Chicago area. Of course, one part of this is that the Upper Midwest rather is, can we say, out of the way as the US goes, so hence we really don't get a whole lot of immigrants from other parts of the US outside the Midwest and Inland North. Aside from some people who move about the country a lot as contractors, the primary people from other parts of English-speaking North America that we get moving here are people from Chicago or Minnesota.

As a result, the dialect here really has not been "diluted" a whole lot, with the only major recent outside influences being from other Inland North dialects (and then it is primarily rather general phonological changes, which often vary at a local level, at work). If anything, there has been a general backpedaling of outside non-Inland North influence due to the apparent reduction in prestige of GA from my parents' generation to my generation combined with more regional sound changes away from GA which are stronger amongst younger people than middle-aged or older people here (such as Canadian Raising and the NCVS becoming stronger over time here).
Damian in Edinburgh   Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:43 pm GMT
My fellow Scottish mate and I went down to Cornwall on a ten day jaunt in Summer 2006 - the first time for both of us to go down to the West Country of England, and actually going right down into what is known as the "toe" of England - the Cornish Peninsula - was even more exciting for me than it was for my friend, who is the same age as I am.

Neither of us had been to the South West of England before - although one set of my grandparents (one Scottish - her, and the other English - him) moved down to a village near Hereford a few years ago, Herefordshire being not quite that far down south west, being one of what is known as the Marcher counties - ie English counties bordering onto Wales, Herefordshire actually being a South West Midlands county, officially. Although Herefordshire borders onto Wales it is very much an English county in character in every way, and having visted my grandparents several times down there I noticed it's very pronounced "Englishness" very much - not only is the gentle rolling landscape exceptionally beautiful, with it's very green landscape, red soil, thick woodlands and lush meadows alongside the rivers - especially the River Wye, acres and acres of apple orchards (think Bulmers cider and that's Herefordshre - especially the mind blowing, gut corroding scrumpy cider - which the locals pronounce something like "zoider" - as in Somerset. Herefordshire is full of little villages and towns full of lovely old black and white timbered houses and cottages, 12th/13th century churches built in so many different styles, and old mansions and stately houses, one of which is apparently going to be the home of Prince William and his girlfriend Kate Middleton once they get married. It's in that bit of Herefordshire between Hereford city itself, and amazingly beautiful Ross-on-Wye.

The local acent in Herefordshire varies between the western parts (close to Wales) and the eastern parts, further into England. A definite Welsh lilt occurs in the people living in the western parts, and a distinctly West Country type accent in the easten parts, although with the younger people it's predominantly RP English English, with traces of Estuary - as ever. Nearby are the Malvern Hills, an amazing range of hills (remnants of prehistoric volcanoes) rising up to a height of c.350m and which form the boundary betwen Herefordshire and Worcestershire, and once into Worcestershire you are heading towards Birmingham and the Black Country, and around Worcester city the accent becomes clearly West Midlands, with the first traces of Brummie taking over as you get further up towards Kidderminster,Redditch and Bromsgrove.

Anyway, back to Cornwall and the trip my mate and I went on, driving all the way down from Edinburgh. We were no way in a hurry so we took it easy, even though we used the motorways for the most part, just ventung off now and again just to mooch around. My mate had never been further south in England than York, so our first stop was there, but as York is a big tourist centre it was full of all sorts of accents, but as I was at uni in Leeds, close by, I was already well familiar with the West Yorkshire accent.

Heading further south the Midlands accent took over and we stopped off at Warwick, to have a look at the magnificent castle, and we stopped the night a wee bit further on at Stratford-upon-Avon, the home of old Will. Again, masses of tourists -accents were international, and the people at the guest house we stayed at were all rather posh English English RP.

Next day, down the Fosse Way, a road which stretched on and on and on across the lush English countryside - a busy modern highway now but it still follows the route of the old Roman road, the Fosse Way. Down into the Cotswolds where the scenery was out of this world - gorgeous towns and villages all built of Cotswold stone, which is a sort of light golden fawn colour. All the people in the pubs and shops seemed to speak standard RP, although in Stow-on-the Wold the main street buzzed with American accents!

Beyond the Cotswolds, past the city of Bristol (which looks really nice but very hilly!) and into Somerset - truly in the West Country now. We made directly for Glastonbury, for obvious reasons - apart from the famous rock festival it is amazingly historic, and is reputedly the spot where Joseph of Arimathea planted a thornbush on the slopes of Glastonbury Tor (a steep hill with an ancient castle on its summit) and the thornbush flowers to this day although protected by an iron railing. Everyone in the shops and pubs in Glastonbury sounded quite standard RP, quite posh sounding at times.

Into Devon, where we stayed the night just beyond Exeter...still mostly RP (ignoring the many non Brit accents knocking around - lots of Dutch people for some reason!). Next day tearing along the A30, over the river Tamar just past Plymouth and we were into Cornwall at last - and already it didn't "look" like England and more. We were in another Celtic region, and the names were different, the landscape looked different, and we began to see the St Piran flag, the Cornish flag flying here and there.

Cornwall is truly unique, and the coastline is amazing, all rocky cliffs and headlands and wee bays & coves and small fishing villages, and on the north coast lovely sandy beaches with huge waves, making this area the very best for surfing in the entire UK. We had a go at surfing when we were near Newquay a few days later.

It was in Cornwall that we heard the real West Country accent, but mostly it was from the older people. Everyone our own age spoke the universal RP type English English, even here in so called Celtic Cornwall, and only once did we find sometone who could speak Cornish, and he actually taught it in night school in Truro, Conrwall's capital city with a cathedral which only dated back to the mid 19th century, easily the newest of all British cathedrals.

One evening we had a good laugh with a group of people in a pub overlooking the wee harbour at Mousehole (pronounced "Mah-ooo-zl") - a former fishing village across the bay from Penzance and St Michael's Mount- a rocky island whichcan only be reached on foot at low tide. In this pub were a group of old guys quaffing ale from tankards and speaking in the real Cornish accent which to us may well have been Swahili for all we knew - we could hardly understand a word they said but that night was one good laugh! The meal we had in that pub was fantastic too - fish freshly caught that day.

I was disappointed in hearing Cornish being spoken only once, but it did die out once and was revived again in the 20th century by a small group of enthusiasts. It looks very similar to Welsh - that's no surprise at all, as they are blood bros after all, as are the Bretons just over on the other side of the Channel.