Which language is more important, French or Spanish?

write in portuguese

A lingua espanhola não existe. Existe o castelhano. O único traço comum entre o português e o castelhano é serem ambas, linguas latinas.
Não confundir nunca o castelhano com o português.
Recomendo a todos os participantes deste forum a uma investigação mais
cuidada.

Maybe you're right. Maybe Portuguese isn't Spanish, but it's propense to become part of it.

Maybe Spanish will become Portuguese, no one could really tell which becomes which, since they share common vocabulary and grammar.

>>>from portugal Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:17 pm GMT
write in portuguese

A lingua espanhola não existe. Existe o castelhano. O único traço comum entre o português e o castelhano é serem ambas, linguas latinas.
Não confundir nunca o castelhano com o português.
Recomendo a todos os participantes deste forum a uma investigação mais
cuidada.<<<

"La lengua española no existe. Existe el castellano. El único trazo común entre el portugués y el castellano es que ambas son lenguas latinas. No confundir nunca el castellano con el portugués. Recomiendo a todos los participantes de este forum a una investigación mas cuidadosa."

SEE THE SIMILARITY?

>>>guest Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:45 pm GMT
Todos sabem que castelhano e portugues sao linguas separadas. Mais de todas as linguas latinas, elas sao as mais parecidas. Isso e a simples verdade.<<<

"Todos saben que el castellano y portugués con lenguas separadas. Mas* de todas las lenguas latinas, ellas son las más parecidas. Eso es la simple verdad."

*Mas = Pero

SEE AGAIN? VERY SIMILAR. I DON'T NEED A TRANSLATOR OR ANYTHING AND I DOUBT ANY HISPANOPHONE DOES.

>portugués con lenguas separadas<

A mistake there, it's not "con", but "son".

*CarloS*
"Maybe you're right. Maybe Portuguese isn't Spanish, but it's propense to become part of it.

Maybe Spanish will become Portuguese, no one could really tell which becomes which, since they share common vocabulary and grammar"


I do not agree when you say "maybe Portuguese isn't Spanish" because they have always been separate languages and there is a way to tell when or how one became separated from the other.

The languages share common vocabulary and grammar because both derive from Celtic and Latin among other spoken native Iberian languages. They share, they do not derive one from the other, if this was to be suggested Portuguese would be the older language, the one from which Castilian derived.

While Castilian, started as the language of Castile when the county was repopulated the Portuguese lands were always inhabited.

“El Condado de Castilla fue un área geográfica que formaba parte del Reino de León hasta que se independizó de éste para pasar a ser el Reino de Castilla.
Fue repoblado por personas procedentes de diversos pueblos (godos, astures, vascones, cántabros...). Residentes en un primer momento en Vizcaya, los movimientos de vascones hacia allí, les hizo desplazarse hacia el oeste, a un lugar tradicionalmente llamado Bardulia, situado en territorio cántabro. Desde allí se dirigieron progresivamente hacia el sur, ocupando los territorios que luego formaron parte del Reino de Castilla.” (wikipedia)
“A comienzos del siglo IX comienza la repoblación de las tierras que configurarán el condado de Castilla. Aprovechando los momentos de debilidad del emirato de Córdoba, multitudes van a atravesar la cordillera Cantábrica desde las tierras de Cantabria y Vizcaya hacia unos territorios en los cuales no existe organización territorial” (Condado de Castilla wikipedia)




Portuguese evolved from the romance spoken in the region of today Galicia and Portugal, the romance called Galego- Portuguese and more to the south another romance that is supposed to be very similar to Galego called Lusitanian-Mozarabic spoken in the Muslim dominated areas.

If you look at the history of Portugal, and knowing that it is the people that makes the language, you can see that a romance was always spoken from which evolved the Portuguese language. The first Germanic invasions covered the total of the Portuguese area causing the first changes to the Hispanic Latim spoken in the region of modern Portugal:
http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v39/papatango/ib_S5_1.jpg
http://usuarios.lycos.es/reinosmedievales/HistoriaReinoTolosa.htm

“La Gallaecia para los Suevos [Quadri and Macromani] del rey Hermérico y los Vándalos Asdingos de Gundérico.La Lusitania y parte de la Cartaginense para los Alanos del rey Adax.La Betica para los vándalos Silingos del rey Fredbal.”
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0500.htm

"[]Gallaeciam Wandali occupant et Suevi, sitam in extremitate Oceani maris occidua. Alani Lusitaniam et Carthaginiensem provincias, et Wandali cognomine Silingi Baeticam sortiuntur.[]” IDATII.

“Acredita-se, em particular, que os suevos sejam responsáveis pela diferenciação linguística dos portugueses e galegos quando comparados com os castelhanos. É, ainda, na época do reino Suevo que se configuram os dias da semana proibindo-se os nomes romanos.” (wikipedia)

The Sueve kingdom in Gallaecia [Galicia northen Portugal] was established at 410 and lasted until 585, it was the first independent kingdom to appear in Hispania and the rest of the Roman empire, the kingdom was conquered by the Visigoths that dethroned Andeca, the last king of the Suebi, in 585.

As a curiosity the descendents of the other tribes of Sueves also have a general tendency to nasalize.
http://www.physicsdaily.com/physics/Swabian_language

Both languages lived side by side for centuries why would you say “ Maybe Portuguese isn't Spanish, but it's propense to become part of it”
It is not a “maybe” it is certain it is not Spanish and it is not “propense” to be part of Spanish either. If you have to say something like that the most logic thing to say is that Spanish is Portuguese but that would be also very wrong.

Just try to understand that between the time of the latim vulgar (that shared many common traits with Celtic), brought to Hispania in the times of the Roman empire, and today Portuguese there was always a romance spoken by the people that lived in the region of Portugal-Galicia that originated the Portuguese language.

The same did not happen with Castilian the county of Castile was repopulated and a language was born at that time.

They are brother languages, just that, and let us keep it that way.

In Europe French is more important than Spanish, because Spanish it isn't important in Europe,
In Africa French is more important
In South America, spanish is the Native language, so it's more important
In Us now Spanish is more important, but in all part Canada French is more important
In Asia and Oceania they aren't very important.
In Economic world they are both important (French is always an official language of International organization, Spanish no)
In general I Think they are very important, and Every English speaker should learn both.

I agree. Spanish and French are important languages to learn. Along with English, they are the three standard languages. Look at your TV, at your instruction manuals, they are usually written in these three languages(Although sometimes French is excluded if the product is meant only for the U.S.). It really depends on what area you live in or plan to do business in. The list that MArco posted seems pretty accurate, although I'm not so sure about French being the official language of International Organizations.

Here in Canada, many of our product manuals, and the packaging of children's toys, are also written in Portuguese too. It's actually kind of funny, because the instructions for Spanish and Portuguese look almost the same in writing. Regards. George.

MArco

<<<In Europe French is more important than Spanish, because Spanish it isn't important in Europe,
In Africa French is more important
In South America, spanish is the Native language, so it's more important
In Us now Spanish is more important, but in all part Canada French is more important
In Asia and Oceania they aren't very important.
In Economic world they are both important (French is always an official language of International organization, Spanish no)
In general I Think they are very important, and Every English speaker should learn both.>>>



What you said is really stands to reason!

And what do you think of Portuguese status?

I think Portuguese is important ONLY in Brazil and Portugal

Portuguese is the first language in Angola, Brazil, Portugal and São Tomé and Príncipe, and the most widely used language in Mozambique. Portuguese is also one of the official languages of East Timor (with Tetum) and Macao S.A.R. of China (with Chinese). It is widely spoken, but not official, in Andorra, Luxembourg, Namibia and Paraguay. Portuguese Creoles are the mother tongue of Cape Verde and part of Guinea-Bissau's population. In Cape Verde most also speak standard Portuguese and have a native level language usage.

Large Portuguese-speaking immigrant communities exist in many cities around the world, including Montreal and Toronto in Canada; Paris in France; Asunción in Paraguay; and Boston, New Bedford, Cape Cod, Fall River, Providence, Newark, New York City, Orlando, Miami, Sacramento, Honolulu and Houston in the United States, Buenos Aires in Argentina, Uruguay, and Nagoya and Hamamatsu in Japan. Portuguese is spoken by about 187 million people in South America, 17 million in Africa, 12 million in Europe, 2 million in North America and 610,000 in Asia.
[...]
Portuguese is with Spanish the fastest growing western language, and, following estimates by UNESCO it is the language with the higher potentiality of growth as an international communication language in Africa (south) and South America (wikipedia)

Well said Gringo. Apparently, some people still have a difficult time grasping the growing importance of the Portuguese language. Jorge.

Europe: English, German/French (official working languages) and Spanish (5th most spoken, 4th most useful and 3rd most learned).

North America (including the Caribbean): Spanish, English and French.

South America: Spanish, Portuguese and the Native languages.

Africa: Arabic, English, and French/Swahili

Asia: Chinese, Arabic, Hindi/Japanese/Malay-Indonesian

Oceania: English and Aboriginal languages.

RESULTS:
1st.- English (4)
2nd.- Spanish (3)
3rd.- French (3)
4th.- Arabic (2)
5th.- Rest (1)

Here is more info. on the growing popularity of the Portuguese language, taken from Wikpedia:

The CPLP or Community of Portuguese-Speaking Countries is an international organization consisting of the eight independent countries which have Portuguese as an official language. Portuguese is also an official language of the European Union, Mercosul and the African Union (one of the working languages) and one of the official languages of other organizations. The Portuguese language is gaining popularity in Africa, Asia, and South America as a second language for study.

Portuguese is with Spanish the fastest growing western language, and, following estimates by UNESCO it is the language with the higher potentiality of growth as an international communication language in Africa (south) and South America. The Portuguese speaking African countries are expected to have a combined population of 83 million by 2050. The language is also starting to gain popularity in Asia, mostly due to East Timor's boost in the number of speakers in the last five years, and Macau is becoming the Chinese Mecca for learning Portuguese, where in early 21st century, the language use was in decline, today it is growing as it became a language for opportunity due to Chinese strategical cooperation with the Portuguese speaking countries. Jorge.

<<Portuguese is with Spanish the fastest growing western language, and, following estimates by UNESCO it is the language with the higher potentiality of growth as an international communication language in Africa (south) and South America (wikipedia)>>


Wikipedia isn't exactly known to be realible source of accurate information given that any two year old can easily write an entry in Wikipedia without too many problems. And even if there is some truth in the "higher potentiality of growth" claim, African countries make the poorest Latin American nation look like a first-world country so I wouldn't get to excited. In any event by and large most African countries are making a conscientious effort to retain their native tongues and identity and I think their is a fair amount of embellishment on the author's behalf, or at least exaggerating a tad,to suggest otherwise.

<<Well said Gringo. Apparently, some people still have a difficult time grasping the growing importance of the Portuguese language.>>

It's unlikely that portuguese will ever be an important international language. In Europe it is spoken only by one small country which happens to be one of poorest and least developed nations in the EU. In the Americas, Brazil is a large nation but still very much third-world and surrounded by a sea of Spanish-speaking nations which are growing by leaps and bounds , will probably eventually succumb to Spanish or a mixture as it predicted by some scholars.

So all points to Portuguese heading the way of the dinosaur. Spanish is a mcuh more melodic, sweet elegant language than the overly nasal Portuguese anyhow. All Portuguese speakers would be better off adopting Spanish instead of stubbornly persevering with portuguese.