"England"

<<England - in my imagination this is such a beautiful word, and sums up the country of bowler hats and polite behaviour, where if you trod on someone's toes, he would apologize to you!>>

That era has long past. When I think of England, I think of drunk hoodlums ready for brawl; vulgar, loud-mouthed chavs behaving obnoxiously in public, dim-witted, silicone enhanced page 3 girls; drug-addicted models and rockers; and angry muslim extremists spouting their hatred for America and killing their teenage daughters for violating sharia.

That era is a romantic myth. It was only the well-off and upper classes who wore bowler hats and spoke with the stiff upper lip. The lower class downtrodden part of the population were just as they are today, except the most of the youngsters were put to work early in the mills or factories, so they didn't have the chance to get up to mischief.

>> It was only the well-off and upper classes who wore bowler hats and spoke with the stiff upper lip

Should have added that this was only a tiny fraction of the population. Most of the rest of the population were exploited and very poor, as per usual.

Why doesnt the 90 y.o old bat move to somewhere without a long drive?. Refuse collectors shouldn't have to go a mile up her lane just because shes old, too infirm and can't be arsed to live somewhere suitable. The council shouldn't spend extra money pandering to the old bat -where would it end?. As I see it, that has nothing to do with Hitler unless your talking about those years he spent invading countries to stop the trash cans being empted. Why cant people just obey the fucking rules? - they are there for a reason and whinging about it doesnt improve the country in any way.

↑ Is the above post supposed to be tongue-in-cheek? I certainly hope so.

In the unlikely event you're serious, I submit to you that perhaps garbage collection--like police and fire protection--should be available to everyone.

So what's new! ;-)

People have been forecasting the demise of England and the English nation ever since Adam was a lad (no, not that one!!!)

This is what Noel Coward had to say......from the place names included in the lyric it wasn't just England heading for Hell and Damnation and the great big refuse tip in the sky it was the whole lot of us in these islands, even Ireland, which is hard to believe knowing the Paddies.....has anyone ever met a depressed Irish man?

They're out of sorts in Sunderland
And terribly cross in Kent,
They're dull in Hull
And the Isle of Mull
Is seething with discontent!
They're nervous in Northumberland
And Devon is down the drain.
They're filled with wrath
On the Firth of Forth
And sullen on Salisbury Plain.

In Dublin they're depressed, lads,
Maybe because they're Celts,
For Drake is going west, lads,
And so is everyone else!
Hurray-Hurray-Hurray!
Misery's here to stay!


There are bad times just around the corner,
There are dark clouds hurtling through the sky,
And it's no good whining
About a silver lining
For we know from experience that they won't roll by!
With a scowl and a frown
We'll keep our peckers down
And prepare for depression and doom and dread.
We're going to unpack our troubles from our old kit bag
And wait until we drop down dead.

From Portland Bill to Scarborough
They're querulous and subdued
And Shropshire lads
Have behaved like cads
From Berwick-on-Tweed to Bude!
They're mad at Market Harborough
And livid at Leigh-on-Sea.
In Tunbridge Wells
You can hear the yells
Of woe-begone bourgeoisie.
We all get bitched about, lads,
Whoever our vote elects,
We know we're up the spout, lads,
And that's what England expects!!
Hurray-Hurray-Hurray!
Trouble is on the way!

There are bad times just around the corner,
The horizon's gloomy as can be,
There are black birds over
The greyish Cliffs of Dover
And the rats are preparing to leave the BBC!
We're an unhappy breed
And very bored indeed
When reminded of something that Nelson said.
And while the press and the politicians nag nag nag
We'll wait until we drop down dead.....


From Colwyn Bay to Kettering
They're sobbing themselves to sleep.
The shrieks and wails
In the Yorkshire Dales
Have even depressed the sheep.
In rather vulgar lettering
A very disgruntled group
Have posted bills
On the Cotswold Hills
To prove that we're in the soup.
While begging Kipling's pardon
There's one thing we know for sure -
If England is a garden
We ought to have more manure!
Hurray-Hurray-Hurray!
Suffering and dismay!


There are bad times just around the corner
And the outlook's absolutely vile,
There are home fires smoking
From Windermere to Woking
And we're not going to tighten our belts And smile, smile, smile!
At the sound of a shot
We'd just as soon as not
Take a hot water bottle and go to bed,
We're going to untense our muscles Til they sag sag sag
And wait until we drop down dead.


There are bad times just around the corner,
We can all look forward to despair,
It's as clear as crystal
From Bridlington to Bristol
That we can't save democracy and we don't much care!
If the reds and the pinks
Believe that England stinks
And that world revolution is bound to spread,
We'd better all learn the lyrics of the old 'Red Flag'
And wait until we drop down dead.

A likely story!
Land of Hope and Glory!
Wait until we drop down dead!!!!

=========================================

Now I'm off awa' tae shoot myself........... ;-)

<<Monica Belluci is hardly a whore. England is teeming with Russian street walkers. English ladies don't even make a nice hooker>>

To my mind, a whore is a woman who would rather have a good time than to make money, of course she will not refuse if offered. Unlike a whore, a hooker or a street walker (definitely lower grade) is a professional. She can not be "enthusiastic", she just does her job, nobody expects that she really enjoys it, all the moans and sighs are just to turn a partner on who paid his money. With a whore, it can be not so smooth, but more lively. they can not be mixed together. Let's speak accurate English.

Tom, perhaps I can shed some light on that issue.

When I was growing up in Tennessee in the 70s, a "whore" was used in the same way as a "slut", i.e., a girl who gave herself to a lot of men just for fun.

When I came out to Reno in the 1980s, I noticed that the natives here used the word "whore" as a prostitute; I've never heard it used to refer to a "slut", either then or now.

Word usage varies by region. I could give a lot of other examples, but don't want to ramble...

I'm not too sure what the OP's motives were for starting this thread about ENGLAND. Margaret Drabble's comments about the country as a whole are well known......England: "a mean, cold, ugly, divided, tired, clapped-out, post-imperial, post-industrial slang-heap covered in polystyrene hamburger cartons."

Even a Scot would recognise that as being an extremely harsh assessment. Take the first word - "mean". Now that really is harsh - what did she mean anyway? Ungenerous? No way can England be called that - England donates vast sums of money to charities, and I can testify to that. My mum suffers from MS and when I was at uni I used to stand outside a supermarket on Saturday mornings on official MS Collection days and the generosity of ordinary people is amazing. That was down in Leeds which is, of course, in England. I have done the same here in Edinburgh, and I can confirm that in spite of the Scottish reputation for keeping a tight hold on the wallet (which is untrue anyway) the Scots, too, are not backward in coming forward with a quid or two, or three or more.

Each time there is a major disaster or calamity elsewhere in the world the UK generally (not just England) sends huge amounts of money towards all the relief funds and at the time of the Asian tsunami several years ago the people of England contributed more money than any other European country. I say England here because the thread is essenially about that part of the UK. In fact, the UK was easily one of the main contributors to the Tsunami relief funds, as it is whenever poorer nations suffer any kind of misfortune.

Cold? Of course England is bloody cold at times, but in spite of its northerly position geographically it is not as cold as it could be due to the oceanic influences from the west - it just feels colder because it can be damp in England, as in Scotland, where it can feel even colder. As they say in Yorkshire - "there's nowt we can do abaht that!" That's the British climate and if anyone doesn't like it, or can't put up with it, then they have the option to sod off elsewhere - the choice is theirs.

Ugly? The industrial revolution started in England - the power house of the world's industrial developments way back in the 18th century was England - practically anything that went to make up the modern world had its roots in England. Blake's "dark Satanic Mills" brought with them wealth and prosperity, but it didn't come without a price in the form of "ugliness" - industrial scars on England's lovely landscape, but now, with the passage of time, these scars have been largely healed with modern developments and a gradual switch from heavy industry and coal mining to other wealth producing commercial activities which are not destructive to the environment in anything like the same way as the former heavy, pollution producing, industries.

Divided? Britain (oh, alright - England) is a western country, and all western countries are "divided" to certain degrees, socially. There will always be a gap between the poor and the rich, but there is vastly more egalitarianism in England now than there was in the past, even the not too distant past. Englishpeople generally are not anything like as deferential to the "upper classes" as they used to be, and the world of "Upstairs Downstairs" is hugely alien to them now. If you consider the United States you could say that there is just as much of a social divide there as there is here, probably even more so.

Tired? No way. I can assure you that England certainly isn't tired - in fact it's amazingly vibrant in so many ways - just look at the British Expats websites on-line and you will see for yourself how so many of them now languishing in foreign climes, alongside their swimming pools, feeling something lacking in their new lives in the sunshine abroad - vibrancy, cultural pursuits, history, close proximity to everything including Continental Europe, just to mention a few.

Clapped out? See the above.

Post Imperial? Of course it's post imperial......all "Empires" finally reach the end of their useful lives, but what sort of world would it be today had the English (oh - alright, British) Empire never existed? Vastly poorer and vastly different I would say. Sic transit gloria mundi.......

Post Industrial? See the above.

Slang heap? I don't think you could ever accuse England of being the main producer of slang, do you? I think you can safely loook elsewhere on that one. Neverthless we do have our own slang terms, but what country doesn't?

Polystyrene hamburger cartons? Now ehere in the world do you think those things started out? Not England, that's for sure. The problem we have here is their rather indiscriminate disposal, as the lovely American guy Bill Bryson (now very happily resident in England) continally harangues us about. If the Americans hadn't introduced fast food joints, producing grossly unhealthy, unappetising junk food then perhaps England would not have such a problem with litter that it has now, resulting in American taking up the Presidency of the Council for the Preservation of Rural England in attempt to persuade the England (oh - alright - the British) to dispose of their litter (most of it junk food carons and wrappers) more responsibly.

As Bill Bryson continually tells us (as if we didn't know already) England (oh, alright - Britain) is an exceptionally beautiful country scenically, bursting with a rich historical and cultural heritage, and even those former industrial eyesores have now mostly been transformed out of all recognition, so it's a great shame that some of us drop those bloody hamburger cartons here there and everywhere......

Of course England has an ugly side - so does every other country. Some of its uglier side can be seen in some of its problems resulting from drugs and alcohol abuse - and binge drinking is probably the result of cash rich, sense poor muppets thinking that the only way you can have fun is to get blootered out of your skull.

Isn't it strange that a thread with England as a topic has now become one concerned with whores and sluts.........England certainly doesn't have a monopoly on those you know! ;-)

England is definitely a country in transition. Only 50 years ago, the British Empire was still mostly intact even if it was crumbling, and the English are still coming to terms with going from being eminent superpower to regular European nation within a short space of time. If England loses to another country at football the media never acknowledge that the other team played better, it always the managers incompetence or the players apathy/laziness that is to blame. I reckon that typifies some of the hungover superiority complex from the glory days.

>> Quoting Adam "If Milan is from Italy, I'll ask this: "

Hi,

He's not Italian. He's from India, and he's been spamming quite a few sites for English learners during the the last month for the sole purpose of advertising his blog. In a post, he candidly admitted doing that to lure visitors and earn money through Google Adsense.

Luckily, he got banned in some websites. I wonder why he hasn't been banned here, and why his signature hasn't been deleted.

i love england but i can,t effort the expinditure.anyone of you who is valanterely support me,
REGARD
SHAMSHER ULLAH

hi,
This is me shamsher.anyone of you who is agree with me to support me,
thanks
Regard
Shamsher Ullah

To Damian in Edinburgh:

Damian, I never meant to insult or offend you or your country. I adore UK/England, this is one of the reasons I speak (maybe poor) English. And please take Milan's provocation easy. Whatever his intention was, he did a good thing as it is another proof that this country is of interest to many people. And the interest is always multilateral, it is a kind of compensation you have to pay for being popular. Besides, as I once mentioned in this thread, each country even each city has places fitting this description. You need not prove No need in refutation - England/UK is a wonderful country as it is with all its drawbacks and good sides. There are quite a few more English writers who said unpleasant things about England, I can recall Lawrence Sterne and Richard Aldington on the spot. On the other side, much more writers, not only from UK, said kind words about it.

As for some birds' occupation, well I should say it is a part of English language which this site helps to master. Where can we examine it if not here? But anyway I apologize.

In general, Damian, I read your notes in many threads. They are very interesting and informative and help to get to know UK (at least Scotland) better. I even borrow some of your expressions now and then. Hope you do not object.

Dinnae fret, TomJimJack - I never considered the idea of insult at all - no way, so there's absolutely no possibility of any objection on my part -no way. You have no need to apologise in anyway at all, either.

England, or Britain generally, has no pretensions of grandeur whatsoever - we can be proud of our history, ashamed of the less savoury parts of it, much as we can be proud of the positives about our country, and equally ashamed of our negatives. As far the focus of this Forum is concerned, England can be proud of the Language that was spawned in its heartlands, and now spoken far and wide across the planet by many millions of people, native speakers and non native speakers alike.

Days of Empire are now long past - and though the British can still feel a certain amount of pride in being the focal point of the brotherhood of the Commonwealth, we are now essentially a thoroughly European country, mere geography dictates that is so, and our future now lies in the brotherhood of Europe, and the fact that the countries of Europe are now melding together in one Union should ensure that past unfotunate events will never be repeated.

Being a member State of a Union made up of so many countries, all in very close proximity with each other (Europe easily being the smallest of the Continents physically) and all with different Languages and cultures and customs, makes for a very exciting future in my opinion.

England (ok - I mean Britain!) is happy to be part of all this and has no desire whatsoever to take "centre stage" on a global scale any more - we should be happy to leave all that to other so called current "super-powers", the two main ones now seemingly facing each other somewhat menacingly over certain issues in a places called Georgia and Ossetia.

Let them sort things out and leave us out of it!