british or american english?
Hi,
No offence to the other David above but just wanted to say that I wrongly thought I was the only person posting as "David" (I only came to this site a couple of days ago, when I posted my "Canadian Accents" thread.
So basically the above is not me and the views are not mine (although some are fair points!).
From now, I'll post as above so as not to be confused with other Davids !
Hello again,
Why is it that people get offended by facts? The differences I pointed out between the languages are not nuts, nor wrong. However I could have chosen a better word then “abuse”. But I did explained what I was referring too. So it will therefore stand. It is correct that the English language is world spread today, but if you are going to learn a language you should learn the real, yes the real language. Not the altered version (NOT referring to any accents or dialects). When I learned French I was taught French that is spoken in France, not the French spoken in Canada. For obvious and logical reasons. If I then decide to change my French and start speaking Canadian French that would be ok, but I should sure as hell learn right from the beginning. Same thing goes to lets say Swedish, I do not travel to Finland to learn Swedish there. And it has nothing to do with the fact that more people speak American English rather then English. And claiming otherwise are with all do respect…wrong. In European schools we are taught English (British), taught French (from France), German (from Germany) this is not done in some kind of oppressive way of thinking, its pure logics. Now, I have no problem with the differences, but I said before, I do believe that one should be taught right from the start. Same thing goes for everything you learn in life. Then afterwards one can choose whether to stick to it or change. And a good start when learning any language is to learn how to spell. I try to do my best despite the fact that my spelling is not that flawless.
missed your post on page 6 David. Very well spoken and nicely put, though it made my post "useless" since you clearly stated a fact that should have been stated from the beginning.
Thank you...
Well, I think the whole thing is kind of silly, because I've never been able to tell which accent foreigners learn--unless they have completely eliminated their accent through some serious and intensive accent reduction therapy, if they learned English in a classroom, they have not a prayer to completely elimate their accent--and thus they will still sound like their speaking "German English" or "Japanese English"--certainly not North American or a variety of British English, or some other dialect. For example, I know someone from Japan--does she speak North American or RP or Cockney, or what? I can't tell. Maybe she learned Bostonian English-- all her a's sound like the "a" in father, and she's pretty much non-rhotic. I can't really tell what accent she was trying to learn, because her Japanese accent pretty much covers it up--and unless she learns how to say her r's, she's not going to sound like she speaks General American--but her non-rhoticity doesn't mean she's speaking RP or New York English either. Considering how even trained actors often botch the accent on the other side of the pond, it's kind of silly to expect a foreigner to be able to do better, without much more extensive training. Maybe have them aim for some sort of Midatlantic accent.
<<Candy - Pretty much same goes for you. Have you been watching a period drama of Britain in the 19th century on Fox ? Modern day Britain is virtually classless.>>
You have GOT to be joking, and anyway, I'm British, you moron, not American. What you wrote is what a lot of British people like to think, the kind of crap that gets published all the time - 'we're all middle class now'. It just makes me howl with derisive laughter, I'm afraid. Open your eyes!
<<In th UK, everyone gets emergency medical attention if they need it, regardless of background or class. I believe that doesn't apply in the US, and that injured homeless people are often left on a drip awaiting critical surgery while administrators search systems to see if the person is "covered" (by Medical Insurance).... now which society is class-ridden again... ummmm. >>
Ummmmm....still the UK, I'm afraid.
I'm still giggling at the comment that I (like Uriel) have an American Superiority Complex and get all my knowledge about the UK from period drama. Not bad for a gal who comes from the Lake District.
I just read it too! Of course it's hilarious when he said it about you as you're British, but Uriel too? She's the last person I'd think of to label as having an "American Superiority Complex". I'm not sure I'd even think of her in that context. She's rooted in reality.
I'd also like to inform you that everyone in the US, regardless of being covered, is entitled to emergency medical care. I should know - I went to the emergency room without coverage and was treated.
So then was my parents' decision to spend a lot of money to enroll me in a British ESL programme at the age of 5 a mistake if I come across as a "twit" while in England? We were taught RP by the finest instructors? Should I change my accent? ...or should I just speak English the way I know how (which in my case happens to be RP) and not be so worried about what other people might think? I mean... I'm not very likely to walk into a working class pub in Liverpool now am I?
Jason: for what it's worth, I truly don't think you are a "twit". Take pride in your ability to speak English well, and the efforts your parents took to ensure that. A recent report here in the UK said that far too many employers here are getting more and more frustrated at the rising number of prospective employees in the jobs market (certainly in the lower to middle range) whose standard of acceptable spoken English falls below that of the basic requirements of the jobs they are going for, whatever their paper qualifications. A fair number are barely able to mumble their way through interviews.
Wow. How did pointing out that in the US accents are linked with regions and not class suddenly make me an American with a superiority complex?
Hospitals in the US cannot, BY LAW, turn away an emergency, regardless of their ability to pay. People do not bleed to death in the lobby while the doctors biopsy their wallets. For complicated non-emergency care, it can be a different story, and even insured people can find that their insurance refuses to cover certain treatments or procedures. What does that have to do with accents? Or class? I've met poorer people than me with better medical coverage!
Of course, though, that begs the question of what "standard of acceptable *spoken* English" means in the first place.
Thank you, Damian for your kind words. As a matter of fact I HAVE been flirting with the idea of living in the UK (which means that I would have to do a lot more flirting with the idea of securing a job in the UK first). I wonder if I would fit in. I've seen just a few episodes of "The Office" (I'm referring to the British version now) and I noticed that the character Jenny is referred to as Camilla Parker Bowles behind her back (due to her RP accent?). I also have experience teaching secondary school mathematics but I've been told by Britons to be very careful before accpeting a job with a state school (some of them can be a bit rough) and I know that they would NEVER hire me at Eton or Harrow or Rugby. Perhaps I should simply continue to visit Britain as a mere tourist.
Oh, and to Uriel and Candy, I'm sorry about some of the remarks you've had to deal with. It's exactly those kind of remarks which have kept me from posting in these last few weeks. I, on th other hand, am a gentleman. I am young, intelligent, multilingual, and articulate. I've also been told I'm very handsome. I could, if I wanted to, walk into a pub in Mayfair or downtown London, wearing a suit and tie like most men there do in the late afternoon or early evening hours (it being a business district), and pass as an English gentleman (although I always tell people I am from Greece if asked - I'm actually proud of my nationality). I may sound English but I am very firmly Greek.
My question is, how does a handsome, yet extremely shy fellow like myself, go about meeting British girls? (I'm crazy about Western European women, especially English girls but I don't want to come across as a typical lout). I am NOT the typical Greek man trying to "pick up" a Northern European girl and that is one stereotype I DON'T want to be associated with. I am actually extremely shy, sensitive (when it comes to emotions), and extremely altruistic yet at the same time strong, loving, caring, and nurturing. I am not the typical Greek male (or at least what most people think of as the typical Greek male). Any advice?
Hey Jason, you've got a bit of a high opinion of yourself!
Perhaps you should change that, not your accept before coming to the UK.
***Of course, though, that begs the question of what "standard of acceptable *spoken* English" means in the first place.***
Travis: Well, putting it bluntly, the simple ability to communicate with people in an acceptable way. Many jobs involve dealing personally with the public or anybody really...customers, clients, business contacts - whoever deals with the company/organisation in any way. If a prospective employee is unable to speak English in a manner that meets up with the employer's minimum standards even, then it's not very good for the image of the organisation. It doesn't matter about the accent....just clear, concise Language which can be understood, and not just a series of grunts and mumblings full of slang terms and grammatical errors which the employers referred to in this report apparently complained about.
It did not refer specifically to those jobs in which it didn't matter at all how the employees spoke...there are plenty of those. The report concentrated on those jobs offered by employers which involve personal contact with the likes of which I mentioned above.
Whether other countries experience this sort of situation I don't really know, but apparently it's a wee bit of a problem here in the UK. Unless of course those articles in the papers reporting on the report were all just a load of bollocks (a word not recommended for use to any of those company clients....).