Bias Toward Multilinguals?

I'm rather tired of "linguists" who present theories or ideas about languages and these experts may not be even semi-bilingual. Anyone else out there who feels this way?

Just as there is no "one" way to learn a language, there is no single
characteristic that identifies a polyglot or a hyperpolyglot except the ability to learn multiple languages.

I don't like the picture that emerges over the internet that the multilingual person is possibly:
Male
Gay
Left-handed
Has learning difficulties

It could be that some people get this idea because some gay people like languages. It's true, I've met two gay men who had an interest in three languages. One of them was NOT left-handed.

I know far more hyperpolyglots who are not gay. Some are male and some are female. None of them reported having learning difficulties as a child.

So, where does this idea emerge? From neurolinguists? Or from a handful of studies on savants? Perhaps reports on the famous "Born on a Blue Day" author sparked an interest in this kind of thinking.

Many people can learn languages. They just don't know this, imo. Learning a language is a natural thing. For me, if I get adequate exposure to a language, I just start learning it as a matter of course. It has to be meaningful exposure. Simply hearing a language spoken by a newscaster won't make someone fluent.

I do have a few other ideas. I think big number multilingual abilities may be found in certain families. It may not touch every member in a generation, but I know of this phenomena. I think it has to do with hearing, in part, but it may be something different.

I don't think it is necessary to have a huge intellect to speak multiple languages, but most people who speak them "well" seem, to me, to be above average in intelligence.

So, do I think gay people can learn languages? Sure? Straight people?
Sure. Left-handed people? Why not? Right-handed people? Yes.

I wish experts(are they jealous?) would stop thinking of polyglots as "freaks" of nature by defining them in narrow ways. Maybe they do not say "freaks", but that's how it seems to me. Multilinguals, savants or not, are not modern day sideshow freaks.

Some Dutch people speak five languages. Should they be in a train car at the circus? Of course not.

>>I know far more hyperpolyglots who are not gay. Some are male and some are female. None of them reported having learning difficulties as a child.

Count me as well. After my stay in Germany (I'm still around...), I gather that in most cases I'm more multilingual than many others, Europeans included. I also proved myself to be fairly straight, though not absolutely. I always performed well as a school kid.

>>
I do have a few other ideas. I think big number multilingual abilities may be found in certain families. It may not touch every member in a generation, but I know of this phenomena. I think it has to do with hearing, in part, but it may be something different.

Most of my family aren't monolingual. Multilingualism is commonplace, especially among those who don't live in my country. And I suspect that all my senses are quite weak. I can't really feel tobacco easily unless it's very strong. I'm hear quite well even though my ears never got hurt. I'm only sensitive to lactose (intolerant) and spicy stuff (by traditional concepts, my nature is unsuitable for spicy stuff). All these don't stop me from learning languages.

And quite on the contrary, being male also doesn't stop me. I've observed so many girls who have far less interest than guys in languages. But in practice, guys' verbal ability can be really far poorer at times.

The other great myth about them is that they 'learn the language like a baby'. LOL! That one will just never die!

<<I don't like the picture that emerges over the internet that the multilingual person is possibly:
Male
Gay
Left-handed
Has learning difficulties >>

I think the gays tend to be more outspoken and overrepresent themselves. As for learning difficulties, how the hell would you learn multiple languages if you can't learn in the first place?

{{Has learning difficulties >>
As for learning difficulties, how the hell would you learn multiple languages if you can't learn in the first place? }}


I thought it would be quite the opposite in fact. Most multilingual people that I know are in fact highly intelligent and educated. I have noticed that many people who are in rather technical professions have a side interest in languages. The only adult native English speaking people I have met who were fluent in multiple foreign languages (with the exception of language teachers) were a programmer and two mathematicians.

Interesting post K.T., as you assert some conscious assumptions the general public may hold on multilinguals. It's good (analytical) conversation nonetheless ;-)

I think that the "linguists" are just jealous of people who can learn multiple languages. I don't mean, however, that describing a language well can't be useful when learning but getting caught only on structure, vocabulary and phonetics won't help anybody learning a language. These guys must put label on people because they waste most of their time studying ABOUT the language rather that THE LANGUAGE itself.

If their theories were right I wouldn't have learned even my native Portuguese because I was raised in a poor neighbourhood, am BLACK (after all blacks are a musical people, right? If people just knew how difficult it is for me to sing or play the guitar...), am right-handed,am NOT gay, never went to schools for learning, don't travel so much and my family in Brazil is TOTALLY monolingual. Also, when I was a child I was never exposed to foreign languages (other than music) and Rio is not a very international place.

I guess that people who want to see multilinguals as freaks never really took the time to sit and dedicate time to learn a language. I bet that if one can spend at least one hour a day studying will make an amazing progress in the long run. By the way, time to 学中文 en Nederlands leren!!

Cheers!!

<<I think that the "linguists" are just jealous of people who can learn multiple languages. I don't mean, however, that describing a language well can't be useful when learning but getting caught only on structure, vocabulary and phonetics won't help anybody learning a language. These guys must put label on people because they waste most of their time studying ABOUT the language rather that THE LANGUAGE itself. >>


Actually some people are just interested in how languages work... There's nothing strange about that. Some people are interested in how engines work, some are interested in how rainfall works, some are interested in how differential equations work. Why not languages?
I think YOU are the jealous one. Jealous that you don't know what's behind the language you use everyday. Like an ignorant driver that doesn't know how the engine of his car works.

Dorado:

"I don't mean, however, that describing a language well can't be useful when learning but getting caught ONLY(emphasis given by me) on structure, vocabulary and phonetics won't help anybody learning a language. "

I think you didn't read my posting well. About being jealous, maybe you don't know I have a master's degree in sociolinguistics. However, I prefer praxis rather than just theory. During my undergraduate studies I had 2 years of study in linguistics, which gave me a lot of train of thought but my teachers usually spoke USUALLY only one language, which is what K.T. is talking about.

About the example you gave, a mechanic isn't ALWAYS a better driver because when he's trying to know more about an engine there are people who are ACTUALLY driving, which makes the difference. I learned about constructivism, generational grammar, langue X parole, read Sausssure, André Martinét, Chomsky and almost about any theory you can think of but what made my language skills get to the next level was USING them as they are.

I don't particularly agree with Mr. Steve Kaufman's method for learning languages(He doesn't put so much emphasis on learning grammar) but he does what most linguists CANNOT or DON'T WANT to do: He learns the languages and uses them without fearing and I respect him for that. How can you explain that someone speaks 9 languages without any linguistic theory?

Cheers!!

Nobody suggested that mechanics are better chauffeurs.
Mechanics = different; drivers = different.
Linguists = different; multilinguals = different.
All people = different.
OK?
You don't have to speak languages to be a linguist. But you can.
You don't have to be a linguist to speak languages. But you can.
Whatever suits you.
OK?
Gay, left-handed, male,...? How American.
LOL!
There are no rules.

Just wanted to say that I've never seen/heard any of these stereotypes (the ones described by K.T.) before. Where are they common? Who believes them? Maybe it's because I read sites which promote mulitlingualism and language learning, and other sites which have nothing to do with it, but none in between, but the stereotypes you describe would not seem to be everywhere.

<< About the example you gave, a mechanic isn't ALWAYS a better driver because when he's trying to know more about an engine there are people who are ACTUALLY driving, which makes the difference. >>

There is something wrong with this statement. Can anyone spot it? In saying this, I note that a very skilled person with plenty of time and energy could put forward a reasonable defence.

<<. I learned about constructivism, generational grammar, langue X parole, read Sausssure, André Martinét, Chomsky and almost about any theory you can think of but what made my language skills get to the next level was USING them as they are. >>


Except who said linguists wanted to take their languages to the next level? That is not their goal!

Anyway, this whole argument is silly. It's like the time old 'university rivalry' where the different faculties go on about how theirs is superior to the others. The physicists slag off the engineers for not understanding what's underlying the formulas they use. The engineers slag off the physicists for sitting around doing maths and not building practical things. The geologists slag off the geographers for dumbing down geology, the geographers slag off the geologists for removing the human face from geography. And so on.


<<Just wanted to say that I've never seen/heard any of these stereotypes (the ones described by K.T.) before. Where are they common? Who believes them? Maybe it's because I read sites which promote mulitlingualism and language learning, and other sites which have nothing to do with it, but none in between, but the stereotypes you describe would not seem to be everywhere. >>


I agree, I have actually NEVER heard any of the stereotypes K.T. mentioned.
male - I thought that only applied to 'hyperpolyglots' (10 languages), not 'multilingual' (people 2-4 languages). I agree that it probably applies to hyperpolyglots as these people tend to be very obsessive and almost monomaniacs, both of which are qualities found more often in males, at least in regards to nerdy stuff.
gay - ok, I've heard this one, but more in relation to university students than to actual fluent multilinguals. The reason for this is that there are a lot more females taking languages at university and hence languages are seen as 'girly'. It's nothing special to languages, it always is the same when there is a gender imbalance. For example, female engineering students are stereotyped as lesbians too, just because there is a gender imbalance.
left-handed - now this one is a little absurd. I've never heard it before at all. However, if it is known, then it probably stems from the stereotype that left-handed people are sometimes associated with intelligence. Why? I haven't got a clue.
learning difficulties - this one is the msot absurd of them all. How would someone with learning difficulties learn foreign languages? Or if they were brought up in a native multilingual environment , they still would be unlikely to master all the languages as well as a good learner. As far as I know (not that far), people with learning difficulties tend to not be big readers and do poorly at school which would vastly restrict their opportunities to become fluent.

In a practical way, this is my experience, watching foreign tv, watching dvd movies with subtitles in the same lenguage you listen, helps a lot to learn a lenguage.
It is really usefull for me and so does write and read in this forum.

Read a lot of books about structure, grammar, vocabulary and phonetics suck. It's hard to learn so.
It is easier and faster if you enjoy while your learn, let's make it easy and beside you'll learn 'the very real people lenguage' and not academical isolated lenguage.

I prefer just a bit of theory and a lot of practise as child learn their native lenguage.

"There is something wrong with this statement. Can anyone spot it? In saying this, I note that a very skilled person with plenty of time and energy could put forward a reasonable defence."

My point is that an F-1 driver doesn't need to know about engines and/or car tuning to be the best driver neither does a computer programmer need to know about all parts in a computer to do his job better.

I happen to know a lot about linguistics but that's not the reason why I became multilingual.Of course that some theory does help learning.

Cheers

"Except who said linguists wanted to take their languages to the next level? That is not their goal! "

Who said linguists want to take their language skills to the next level? I said I WANTED to take MY languages to the next level, reason why I gave up studying theory ONLY and transferred my efforts to the practical study.

"Anyway, this whole argument is silly. It's like the time old 'university rivalry' where the different faculties go on about how theirs is superior to the others."

Who's attacking whom? If you read my first posting again you'll see that I do think that studying the structure, phonetics and vocabulary is valuable but the EMPHASIS shouldn't be put ONLY in the theoretical part of language (at least for people who want to SPEAK the language). I have no problem with linguists as long as they let me keep on learning. From all lessons I took in college I'm thankful for having studied phonetics because it makes the process of dealing with different sounds much easier. I love dictionaries which have the IPA symbols in them.

Cheers