It is well known the <ll> in Welsh are pronounced as a voiceless lateral fricative, as the place name <Llandudno>. Speakers of Welsh, could you please confirm whether other place names or proper names (including the name <Lloyd>) are pronounced in such a way?
do all Scottish, Irish and Welsh speak English?
Damian.Stop embarrassing us Scot's with your old fashioned shortbread,bonny bonny heather uproach,Most Scot's are modern and can reach out to other cultures.Most Scot's would rather learn French or Spanish than gaelic it's more useful.
In response to Abdul,
As far as I can think right now, I cannot think of any exceptions to the rule where the Welsh "ll" is concerned, they are all pronounced with the front of the tongue touching the front of the roof of the mouth (behind top front teeth,) then blowing gently letting the air through the sides of the tongue( with no voice). The name Lloyd is not strictly a welsh name, as there is a welsh version which is extremely popular as a second name today in welsh speaking families. "Llwyd" is pronounced "ll" as my description above, and the "wyd" as the "wid" in "Widnes".
As far as I can think right now, I cannot think of any exceptions to the rule where the Welsh "ll" is concerned, they are all pronounced with the front of the tongue touching the front of the roof of the mouth (behind top front teeth,) then blowing gently letting the air through the sides of the tongue( with no voice). The name Lloyd is not strictly a welsh name, as there is a welsh version which is extremely popular as a second name today in welsh speaking families. "Llwyd" is pronounced "ll" as my description above, and the "wyd" as the "wid" in "Widnes".
"Only a hundred years ago"
Only a hundred years ago?
Come off it now. What's the statute of limitations on common sense here?
Only a hundred years ago?
Come off it now. What's the statute of limitations on common sense here?
>> Can you elaborate 12RA?<<
He means that 100 years is a bloody long time ago!
He means that 100 years is a bloody long time ago!
"a bloody long time ago"?
It means that only two generations ago, children's minds were influenced
to view the welsh language as something wrong, that it wasn't as good as the english language, and that it was forbidden. Surely anyone can
see how a whole generation would, not only receive no education in their mother tongue, but how that mode of thinking created through the banning would generate negative opinions and have longterm implications on their lives, and future generations?
It means that only two generations ago, children's minds were influenced
to view the welsh language as something wrong, that it wasn't as good as the english language, and that it was forbidden. Surely anyone can
see how a whole generation would, not only receive no education in their mother tongue, but how that mode of thinking created through the banning would generate negative opinions and have longterm implications on their lives, and future generations?
MARK - I'm sorry that my uproach offends you and, according to you, other Scot's as well. Are you not proud of your heritage like most Scot's are, or are you an exception? How come its old fashioned to promote the Gaelic Language, which is still widely spoken in the Highland's and Island's of our beautiful country? I really think its sad that a mere 5% or so of our population are able to speak Gaelic, and as I have said before in this Forum load's of time's, the decline and ultimate death of ANY Language is a tragedy. Only a muppet would be immune to sorrow should Gaelic in Scotland suffer that same fate.
Its a fact that I know diddly squat more or less about Gaelic apart from a few word's and phrase's, which is the case with the vast majority of Scot's, as I happen to live in metropolitan Scotland, and in a city where we are heaps more likely to hear your favoured French and Spanish spoken all around us rather than our theoretically native Gaelic...sadly only heard in the few location's I mentioned. We in Edinburgh make do with Scots when we wish to confuse the English. :-)
I shall continue to promote bonny bonny heather and yummy shortbread and Dundee oatcakes and finnan haddies or whatever else of my native country in spite of the fact that, as you so rightly say, we Scot's are as "modern" and culturally diverse and willing to uproach every aspect of todays world as any other nation. Of course we are infinitely more likely to learn Continental Language's than we are Gaelic, and now Polish is the "hot tongue" of the moment - I'd enjoy getting to grip's with that impenetrable looking Language. I mean, even Tesco are now showing sign's in Polish, are they no? I reckon its only a matter of time before we see the same in Bulgarian and Romanian...one Cyrillic and the other Roman. Should be fun! Ha!
Regarding the Welsh "LL" - it's easy peasy. Only Sassenachs are physiologically disabled when trying to come to terms with the sound. I'd enjoy asking my way to Llanuwchllyn or Llanllyfni with supreme confidence. I do have problems with Bala though....
Its a fact that I know diddly squat more or less about Gaelic apart from a few word's and phrase's, which is the case with the vast majority of Scot's, as I happen to live in metropolitan Scotland, and in a city where we are heaps more likely to hear your favoured French and Spanish spoken all around us rather than our theoretically native Gaelic...sadly only heard in the few location's I mentioned. We in Edinburgh make do with Scots when we wish to confuse the English. :-)
I shall continue to promote bonny bonny heather and yummy shortbread and Dundee oatcakes and finnan haddies or whatever else of my native country in spite of the fact that, as you so rightly say, we Scot's are as "modern" and culturally diverse and willing to uproach every aspect of todays world as any other nation. Of course we are infinitely more likely to learn Continental Language's than we are Gaelic, and now Polish is the "hot tongue" of the moment - I'd enjoy getting to grip's with that impenetrable looking Language. I mean, even Tesco are now showing sign's in Polish, are they no? I reckon its only a matter of time before we see the same in Bulgarian and Romanian...one Cyrillic and the other Roman. Should be fun! Ha!
Regarding the Welsh "LL" - it's easy peasy. Only Sassenachs are physiologically disabled when trying to come to terms with the sound. I'd enjoy asking my way to Llanuwchllyn or Llanllyfni with supreme confidence. I do have problems with Bala though....
how sad to hear mark of scotland comments, unless scots like him change his atitude his language will die, what a crime it would be to allow this to happen as many people say a language defines a nation, it would be his duty as a proud scot to promote the language whether he can speak it or not, almost everyone in cymru supports cymraeg i being brought up hearing cymraeg spoken but not having any command of the language sent both my children to ysgol gymraeg this prompted me the learn cymraeg also and so do my bit for cymru.
daw ein dydd
daw ein dydd
">> Can you elaborate 12RA?<<
He means that 100 years is a bloody long time ago!"
Precisely. I don't for one moment mean to diminish what was done to Welsh back then but the fact is, it was back then. The perpetrators and the victims are all pretty well pushing up daisies now.
Carping on about past grievances is always a specious argument, and it gets more specious as time moves on.
What's next? Are we to lay the blame for the Holocaust at the feet of the first German baby born on New Year's Day?
He means that 100 years is a bloody long time ago!"
Precisely. I don't for one moment mean to diminish what was done to Welsh back then but the fact is, it was back then. The perpetrators and the victims are all pretty well pushing up daisies now.
Carping on about past grievances is always a specious argument, and it gets more specious as time moves on.
What's next? Are we to lay the blame for the Holocaust at the feet of the first German baby born on New Year's Day?
"I don't for one moment mean to diminish what was done to Welsh back then but the fact is, it was back then"
How I wish I could agree with you, that it was "back then". You would be amazed how often welsh speakers are challenged today by non welsh speakers, or have to change their language in the middle of a sentence when made to feel uneasy about speaking welsh when there is an english person present.
How I wish I could agree with you, that it was "back then". You would be amazed how often welsh speakers are challenged today by non welsh speakers, or have to change their language in the middle of a sentence when made to feel uneasy about speaking welsh when there is an english person present.
"You would be amazed how often welsh speakers are challenged today by non welsh speakers, or have to change their language in the middle of a sentence when made to feel uneasy about speaking welsh when there is an english person present."
Being an English- and French-speaking Canadian, and having lived on both sides of that particular language divide, I probably wouldn't be amazed.
But that said, you have to face facts: very few English people speak Welsh. Most Welsh people speak English.
So you're always going to find yourself in such situations.
Being an English- and French-speaking Canadian, and having lived on both sides of that particular language divide, I probably wouldn't be amazed.
But that said, you have to face facts: very few English people speak Welsh. Most Welsh people speak English.
So you're always going to find yourself in such situations.
***Most Welsh people speak English***
Erm....I would think you would be extremely, extremely hard put to find a single Welsh person - even the very, very oldest and decrepit hermit, living in the most inaccessible windswept, rainswept mountain retreat along with the goats - unable to speak English! Perhaps a century ago yes, but not now. In some parts of Wales you would be well challenged to find a single person who could reasonably converse with you in Welsh. Maybe they could offer a few swear words or basic phrases in the Language, but not a meaningful conversation.
Erm....I would think you would be extremely, extremely hard put to find a single Welsh person - even the very, very oldest and decrepit hermit, living in the most inaccessible windswept, rainswept mountain retreat along with the goats - unable to speak English! Perhaps a century ago yes, but not now. In some parts of Wales you would be well challenged to find a single person who could reasonably converse with you in Welsh. Maybe they could offer a few swear words or basic phrases in the Language, but not a meaningful conversation.
But it's not all doom and gloom! With welsh education available to children in many new areas, and more adult learning classes available than you could ever imagine, we are yet to reap the seeds that are being sown today. What we need most now is determination on the part of the Welsh speaking population to make the welsh language heard whenever possible, and to be proud of speaking it! The brave people who decide
to learn the language need more support from us, (lots of people find it difficult to speak welsh with learners, as both parties know that, at first, their conversation would be more fluent in English. Only with natural and constant use will a learner become fluent)
to learn the language need more support from us, (lots of people find it difficult to speak welsh with learners, as both parties know that, at first, their conversation would be more fluent in English. Only with natural and constant use will a learner become fluent)
"In some parts of Wales you would be well challenged to find a single person who could reasonably converse with you in Welsh"
None of them seem to have any difficulty when they're speaking to me.
But then when I leave the shop they revert back to English to speak with each other.
None of them seem to have any difficulty when they're speaking to me.
But then when I leave the shop they revert back to English to speak with each other.