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The United States is a democratic country and it's very existence as a melting pot is made up of of people from all over the world ever since 1776. Tt would be a bit weird to suggest that "an accent" would be a hindrance to advancement in the legal field, or any other occupation, but as in any other country there would be minimum standards of communication ability in the main Language of that country. In the United States that is English, even though it is apparently not the "official" Language.
Here in the UK, there is no reason why a person with all the legal qualifications it's possible to acquire to enter the field of law and yet speak with a regional accent. The thing is, though, it would be extremely difficult to function successfully if the accent is really strong (such as a very broad thick Scouse or Glasgow or Cockney accent) as it's vital that full comprehension operates on all sides. I know for a fact that most professionals (legal or whatever) here in Edinburgh have a distinct local accent, but it's modified and soft and understood by everyone, whether local or not. Some accents are perceived as "educated" because standard non colloquial English is used, whereas some are not, even if similar standard English is used, so prejudice does exist. So, in practice, you don't really find any professional people here who have such very strong regional accents. Furthermore, Estuary would be out the window, that's for sure. That's just the way it is, and my guess is that it's most probably the same in America.
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It's not a question of accent but rather more of acceptance in your area of practice to succed in your field of expertise. Been reading the threads and as far as my understanding capability is concerned, some pointed out valid issue like "relatively unknown person would start selling their services and these are met with suspicions by locals," or perhaps the ability of the listener to understand and follow your train of thoughts, main point is, speaking ability should be internationally accepted and recognized. Meaning, good diction, good choice of words, ability to express and articulate but no too verbose that your listener would get lost to what you are trying to say.
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Whatever happened to "freedom of speech," I thought we Americans love that. How come whenever someone mentions anything negative about America, you people are too quick to chew him up. Why not just open your minds and try to see things from a different perspective, afterall none of you seem to have suffered from a little prejudice, so when someone mentions it why not "shut the fuck up" and try to listen.
There is discrimintation in every country, and America not exempted, so rather than chew up the guy who mentions it, I would be happy if anyone said "its not rampant" in America. And whoever said there is hardly discrimination in democratic countries (laughable), what planet are you from?.
Stan might have been too hard in his choice of words, but there is "logic" in his words. Indeed, discrimination is an issue very few in America would like to talk about, the truth is that we all try to deny it, rather than discuss it.
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<< Indeed, discrimination is an issue very few in America would like to talk about, the truth is that we all try to deny it, rather than discuss it. >>
Just the point I was trying to make, my bluntness seems to be an obvious mistake, most people hate to hear the plain truth, they like it served with tasteful embellishments.
And since when has someone's mention af prejudice in America makes him "anti-America," this is the constituent I think we all should be careful with our choices of words.
<< Stan; you're getting awfully tiresome lately. >>
Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you can't seem to hide a bad day.
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<< Stan; you're getting awfully tiresome lately. >>
And consider how much crap I've had to put up with...lately!
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Tiffany said:
***I think people in general are uncomfortable around people who are perceived as strangers - this includes people who speak with an accent as they are often seen as having one up on strangers - they are perceived as not only strangers, but strangers from another country.***
I'm sorry, but if that really is the prevailing attitude in the United States then it is an extremely parochial one. Flippin' 'eck! - America is a country that has been built up on the backs of immigrants from all points of the compass - from all over the globe! The Great Melting Pot - all those Languages and accents merging together in the Great American Dream. How come then that there is this "discomfort" and "suspicion" of people who speak "with an accent", and then perceived as, oh my God! - - strangers! How narrow minded and bigoted is that attitude? Does it mean that people like our Russian friend Sergei would not be welcome to contribute to the famed American Dream simply because of some incredulous prejudice towards his Russian accent? By all accounts, he hasn't been there very long, and surely in time it would become more Americanised, as that seems to be the case usually from what little I know about such matters over there.
I'm sorry, but I found that statement about perceived antagonism in the so called land of opportunity for all more than just a little strange. I'm so sorry, but it simply strengthens still more the anti Americanism prevalent throughout the rest of the world ....of which sadly so many Americans seem to be blissfully unaware, which is why this parochialism seemingly now exists.
Of course prejudice and discrimination exists in most countries and always will, but as I have said, America has developed as the great nation it is today out of the efforts of people originating from a whole host of other nations. That is why it seems so strange that they now, apparently, have this very narrow minded attitude, according to posts from Americans themselves. After all, if anybody knows the facts, they do. We outsiders don't. All we know really is that Americans *generally* (not all of them of course but pretty much the majority) have little concern for the rest of the world.
Maybe it isn't really that bad - and hopefully that's what Sergei will discover. After all he's been given the opportunity to study there, which is good.
Sergei - good luck, mate!
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You have misunderstood me Damian. My point was that any "wariness" towards people viewed as foreigners was global and not strictly American, as this topic seems to try to be implying. There is no more or less of it in America vs other countries.
I for one think we are very welcoming to foreigners. I married a foreigner for godsakes. But the country isn't perfect - because not all people in it are perfect. I am not delusional about the country I am from. I am actually probably one of the toughest critics of America. However, while everybody loves pointing out the America is actually very imperfect, they seem to forget that the countries they hail from aren't either, as though they are holier-than-thou. Pot calling the kettle black.
Anti-Americanism? I'd say so. "America this, Americans that" This is the "Let's pick on th US" decade.
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<<All we know really is that Americans *generally* (not all of them of course but pretty much the majority) have little concern for the rest of the world.>>
Is this an Anti-American attitude, Damian? It's like when I went to Montreal to visit my cousin who was going to McGill. We met a Quebec sovereignist at the university who ranted on about evil anglo-Canadians for a good twenty minutes. Of course, he said, not all of them were evil, like my cousin and I, but he was sure most were....
Really, why pick on America? What kind of "concern" are you speaking of? I could say... Generally, Italy seems to have little concern for the rest of the world. Would that be any more or less valid? How about Britian? What more concern for the world does Britian have that America lacks?
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This is a language forum, folks. Remember that before posting.
Mike,
I don't think anyone is denying or being closed minded about anything. The question wasn't "is their prejudice in America with regard to accents?" I don't think anyone can deny that there is, as is the case in any country. The question was whether one can be a successful lawyer in the U.S. if he/she has an accent. I hate to sound like a know-it-all, but as I said, ask the foreign students who attend top American law schools or the successful immigration attorneys. Open up any ethnic newspaper in the U.S. and you're guaranteed to find lawyers from that particular ethnicity advertising.
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Sergei,
I think your success will depend on what kind of lawyer you want to be. You may have problems as a trial lawyer, as your non-native accent may cause jurors to doubt your knowledge of and commitment to American law, but for areas of law involving less speaking, you can do just fine. Best of luck to you.
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I work with doctors in the US, and not only do many of them have thick foreign accents, but people seem happy to trust their LIVES with them. So I think this was a case of Stan speaking on a subject about which he knows a lot less than he thinks.
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"I work with doctors in the US, and not only do many of them have thick foreign accents, but people seem happy to trust their LIVES with them."
I don't see it as a matter of trust so much as a matter of credibility. A person claiming to be an expert in American law would probably come across as more credible to the average person if they spoke an American accent. Medicine is a science, and is therefore universal.
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I think Stan should not speak of America as he does when probably hasn't ever been here. I also find it suspicious that he refuses to say what country he is from.
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Since when are lawyers credible in ANY accent?
And why would we expect a foreign-born doctor to have a complete grasp of anatomy and biochemistry, but NOT trust a foreign-born lawyer to have mastered law? Especially when they would have to have been proven competent by passing the state bar exam in order to practice in the first place?
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"Since when are lawyers credible in ANY accent?"
Good one.
"And why would we expect a foreign-born doctor to have a complete grasp of anatomy and biochemistry, but NOT trust a foreign-born lawyer to have mastered law?"
Law is specific to a region, as is language, whereas human anatomy and biochemistry are universal sciences.
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