Many people , appart from not pronouncing LL differently from Y, they really think that LL sounds like Y when they hear this sound. This is one of the reasons, in my opinion why Yeismo is spreading. I guess that this is your case. Pay more attention to people in Northern Spain, or Catalan speakers using Spanish and you'll notice that tey really don't pronounce Y and LL the same.
LL and Y distinction
Trust me. I did pay attention.
The reason it is so obvious that they don't pronounce LL as LL is because it doesn't only sound like Y, which does in fact sound very similar to LL, but many times the sound is closer to English J or ZH. Which is why it's unmistakable.
Besides, I am able to distinguish LL from Y, and I am able to pronounce LL as LL.
What I don't try to do is distorting the truth and making people believe that LL pronunciation as LL is still common, even in those areas you mentioned.
The reason it is so obvious that they don't pronounce LL as LL is because it doesn't only sound like Y, which does in fact sound very similar to LL, but many times the sound is closer to English J or ZH. Which is why it's unmistakable.
Besides, I am able to distinguish LL from Y, and I am able to pronounce LL as LL.
What I don't try to do is distorting the truth and making people believe that LL pronunciation as LL is still common, even in those areas you mentioned.
Foreign students who learn Spanish, for instance, in Europe don't even learn to pronounce LL.
There are some people unable to identify the LL sound properly , probably you are among them. Let' take into account that Spanish is so simple in terms of phonetics that those dialects which are even more simple than Standard Castilian Spanish, I mean, those which use yeismo, make those speaker's ears unable to detect the subtle differences between LL and Y. I'm from northern Spain and LL is used there. Even in the South there are non "yeista" islands. LL sound is far from dead, and even more, it is regarded as the proper way to pronounce the LL digraph among cultured people.
Foreign students don't even learn Z properly, which is strange considering that there are so many people saying that Spanish is easy to pronounce.
What do you mean with Z sound? The characteristic C/Z sound of European Spanish, like in zorro, cerro? If you learn Spanish in Europe you have to learn it but in the Usa they pronounce like in South America
Not completely true. They learn Vosotros despite in South America it is not used, but they learn to pronounce Z like S because it is easier and because it pronounced this way in South America.
why should it be that difficult for Americans to pronounce z if it's got the same sound as th
I don't know, but the English speakers in Great Britain tend to pronounce Z like S, and I highly doubt that in Great Britain they learn Mexican Spanish too.
<< There are some people unable to identify the LL sound properly , probably you are among them. Let' take into account that Spanish is so simple in terms of phonetics that those dialects which are even more simple than Standard Castilian Spanish, I mean, those which use yeismo, make those speaker's ears unable to detect the subtle differences between LL and Y. I'm from northern Spain and LL is used there. Even in the South there are non "yeista" islands. LL sound is far from dead, and even more, it is regarded as the proper way to pronounce the LL digraph among cultured people. >>
I'm not saying that LL pronunciation is inexistant. Some abuelos still use it, and perhaps those who are trying desperately to be posh. In the end they sound ridiculous. Just like Brits who try to speak the so called "Queen's English".
Face the truth.
You barely hear LL pronounced as LL, and Yeísmo has long been accepted in the Standard Castellano. People who try so hard to pronounce LL as LL eventually end up sounding fake. At least in Spain. I don't know about Bolivia or Paraguay.
I'm not saying that LL pronunciation is inexistant. Some abuelos still use it, and perhaps those who are trying desperately to be posh. In the end they sound ridiculous. Just like Brits who try to speak the so called "Queen's English".
Face the truth.
You barely hear LL pronounced as LL, and Yeísmo has long been accepted in the Standard Castellano. People who try so hard to pronounce LL as LL eventually end up sounding fake. At least in Spain. I don't know about Bolivia or Paraguay.
<<Are there still people who actually distinguish them in their natural speech? If yes, is this distinction disappearing?>>
The distinction is preserved in Ladino and Philippine Spanish, although both these languages/dialects have very few speakers. Spanish loan words (as well as Spanish names) in the Philippine languages retain this distinction.
The distinction is preserved in Ladino and Philippine Spanish, although both these languages/dialects have very few speakers. Spanish loan words (as well as Spanish names) in the Philippine languages retain this distinction.
Young people in northern Spain pronounce LL too. The fact that young generations tend to be Yeista does not mean that the distinction between LL and Y is seen as archaic or it has already faded out from the language spoken by newer generations. Many people see the distinction between LL and Y as sign of culture, and also I do . In fact RAE recommends to make this distinction despite yeismo is nowadays accepted. Is RAE ridiculous? I guess that in yeista zones, to pronounce LL is seen as pretentious but other people pronounce it naturally. I 've met people in yeista zones who didn't even know that LL represents a different sound than Y and had a hard time understanding that LL can be pronounce different than Y. Please yeista people, be tolerant and don't blame those who, despite being fewer, still pronounce Castilian properly.
I agree. Yeistas are jealous because many of them can't even pronounce LL correctly. In Spain the more rich and cultured, the less yeista people are.
<< Please yeista people, be tolerant and don't blame those who, despite being fewer, still pronounce Castilian properly. >>
No one is blaming the lleístas at all.
The problem are some persons who try to distort the truth.
But as I said, no matter what you say, it'll not change the reality.
If you want to believe that lleísmo is a sign of culture, be my Guest! ;-) You're the one who will end up being ridiculous for living in your imaginary society where lleístas are more cultured than yeístas.
<< I agree. Yeistas are jealous because many of them can't even pronounce LL correctly. In Spain the more rich and cultured, the less yeista people are. >>
LOL!
Que te haces gracioso, amigo! =D
No one is blaming the lleístas at all.
The problem are some persons who try to distort the truth.
But as I said, no matter what you say, it'll not change the reality.
If you want to believe that lleísmo is a sign of culture, be my Guest! ;-) You're the one who will end up being ridiculous for living in your imaginary society where lleístas are more cultured than yeístas.
<< I agree. Yeistas are jealous because many of them can't even pronounce LL correctly. In Spain the more rich and cultured, the less yeista people are. >>
LOL!
Que te haces gracioso, amigo! =D