World languages

Emperor   Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:21 pm GMT
hm...
I would like to point out that languages are important.
If quebeck would be independant than significance of French would be more visible.

By the way I speak:

English, German, French, Spanish, Slovak, Czech, Polish, some Russian, Japanese, Italian and Chinese.

Try to beat that !

Real international languages are: English, French and Spanish.
Global languages:English, French and Spanish.
Depends on the circumstances.

In EU : English, French, German and very small significance Spanish.
The best language to learn: English.

The second best language to learn: in EU=1.French 2.German.
in the World=Spanish

The next language after EN, DE, FR, SPA is ITA in EU.
is Chinese, Japanese or
Russian in the World.

Again this depends on the circumstances.

Spanish is good for other similar languages.
English is good for other similar languages.
Russian is good for other similar languages.

If you do business or similar usually you start with english first and I doubt that this is going to change. After that you perhaps realised that other side speaks perhaps German you start speaking German.
I really doubt that after English somebody will speak Chinese. Be realistic ! If you would dealing with Chinese you would speak at least English, French, German or Spanish with them. But even this I doubt. More realistic would be, that you would continue with English most likely.

In Russia you can speak English, German and on some extent French.
One important thing is that Spanish would be never wide spoken language in Europe. Real is that that would always be English, German, French and on some extent Italian and maeby, maeby Spanish but that is very unlikely.

English-everywhere.

German-Germany and many countries have the German language as a second language, but no much significance in the World as not many outside EU speak it.

French-France and many countries second language.

Spanish-Spain and many countries have Spanish language as a second language, but no much significance in EU, but outside EU many countries actually speak it.

Russian is abandoned because of the historical issues, namely eastern block and federation countries. Checkout the History and you`ll see why.

If we talk about future. Probably Spanish, because its easy and a lot of people already speak it. But remember that Spanish do not sound so pleasant, therefore It would be English afterall. Spanish would be probably second, but that will be only if France would lost its power.
Remember Spanish speaking countries are quite poor and would remain poor for sometime. Look at history especially English, French, German and Russian and you will see why.
Another point, it is more likely for spanish language to die out than it is for Italian, e.g. latin already died out but is still in use in some extent. The reasons for it are because of Roman Catholic Church. The Richiest Church on the PLANET !!!
But I might be wrong of course. As for learning that is because everybody already mastered English at school, thats why there is significance for Spanish, because it is easy to learn.

Remember the key is the trade. Therefore I really doubt about Spanish.
Therefore French is very useful in one hemisphere and Spanish is very useful in the other one. But in both is very useful English. Remember that in the hemisphere where French is useful, there never ever would be Spanish useful. It is more likely that in other part of hemisphere where Spanish is widely spoken would be useful French than other way round.
Reasons for it are in History. Sorry but that is the truth.

There is absolutely no chance for arabic. World already speaks one language and that is English on some extent. So there is no space for other language to be number one.

In terms of resources Russia is number one and nobody can beat that, but you can go into business just speaking english. Therefore english would be still number one language. You can go with German or French on very small extent in Russia but certainly there is no chance for Spanish. EU and Russia no chance for Spanish rather English, French or German. Although Spanish is one of 4 in EU, but judge what is the reality.

As for another reality there is tendecy in EU to be fluent at least 2 forein languages. And that would be from these languages:
1.English
2.German
3.French
with 100%.
4.Spanish
5.Italian
with 50%

other languages are irrelevant. For example if you are Polish, most likely you would know English-German-French. If you are German, most likely you would know English-French. Do not forget that English-German-French languages are spoken by the richest nations. And literary nobody can beat that.
If Chinese people want to have their language in worldwide or so, or there is a saying that they are so many that can beat somebody just by crosing borders, remember before China do anything, first China must beat Russia and that is very unlikely therefore no chance for China.
For this look at the History and look at position on the map of the World and deduct for yourselfs.

Cheers
K. T.   Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:00 pm GMT
It would be most interesting to hear how you learned your languages and how you rate them.
mac   Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:42 am GMT
All hail the Emperor!
Guest   Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:11 am GMT
Russian is a lot more important in Europe than people give it credit for, especially in business. Russian has huge business dealings with Europe, so it'd be a good idea to learn it.
mac   Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:32 am GMT
Pros and cons of the big languages:

English - Still going strong and will continue. The "must know" world language. Convenient almost everywhere.

French - Has a large presence among secondary speakers and students. France and the EU are influencial, so it should remain popular. Important in Africa as well. However, while still strong, French has become less "necessary" to learn mostly due to the popularity of English.

Spanish - Has steadily grown and has become more popular among language students. Dominate in most Latin American countries and influencial in the rest. Growing presence in the US. Important languge in the EU, but only after English, French and German.

German - Strong in central Europe and the EU, but has limited international presence outside of this area.

Russian - Includes a large country, growing economy, but has limited international presence in recent decades outside of it's "sphere". Still stigma from the authoritarian Soviet years. Popularity may increase depending on future economic and political clout.

Mandarin Chinese - Includes a huge population, growing ecomomy, but has limited international presence. Very complex language and some bad stigma about the government. Popularity has gradually increase and the govenment is making efforts to promote the language abroad.

Arabic - Growing population, the primary language of the Mid-East, North Africa. But is actually a macro-languge with many spoken variations. The standard form is learned secondary and is not always prefered over say...English or French.
Guest   Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:17 am GMT
<< Russian - Includes a large country, growing economy, but has limited international presence in recent decades outside of it's "sphere". Still stigma from the authoritarian Soviet years. Popularity may increase depending on future economic and political clout. >>

Russian regained its prestige and importance not just in non-native russian speaking ex-soviet republics but also in Eastern Europe while it dislodges German. Ewatern European ciuntries realized Russia's importance as their principal trafe partner. Yes you're right when you say that Russia's economy is growing and that's one of the factors that makes it important again.

Don't you know that Russian has a strong presence in Mongolia, Turkey, Finlanf , Cuba, and Gibraltar. It's also one of the most stufied foreign languages in China.

Russian is also important because of the success of Russian speaking world in space exploration and it has now displace German as the second most imppoortant language in science, behinf English.
Guest   Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:32 am GMT
<< Russian - Includes a large country, growing economy, but has limited international presence in recent decades outside of it's "sphere". Still stigma from the authoritarian Soviet years. Popularity may increase depending on future economic and political clout. >>

Russian regained its prestige and importance not just in non-native russian speaking ex-soviet republics but also in Eastern Europe while it dislodges German. Eastern European countries realized Russia's importance as their principal trafe partner. Yes you're right when you say that Russia's economy is growing and that's one of the factors that makes it important again.

Don't you know that Russian has a strong presence in Mongolia, Turkey, Finlanf , Cuba, and Gibraltar. It's also one of the most stufied foreign languages in China.

Russian is also important because of the success of Russian speaking world in space exploration and it has now displace German as the second most imppoortant language in science, behinf English.
Guest   Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:51 am GMT
<< Russian - Includes a large country, growing economy, but has limited international presence in recent decades outside of it's "sphere". Still stigma from the authoritarian Soviet years. Popularity may increase depending on future economic and political clout. >>

Russian regained its prestige and importance not just in non-native russian speaking ex-soviet republics but also in Eastern Europe while it dislodges German. Eastern European countries realized Russia's importance as their principal trafe partner. Yes you're right when you say that Russia's economy is growing and that's one of the factors that makes it important again.

Don't you know that Russian has a strong presence in Mongolia, Turkey, Finland , Cuba, and Gibraltar. It's also one of the most stufied foreign languages in China.

Russian is also important because of the success of Russian speaking world in space exploration and it has now displace German as the second most imppoortant language in science, behind English.
greg   Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:17 pm GMT
'Guest' : « Don't you know that Russian has a strong presence in Mongolia, Turkey, Finland , Cuba, and Gibraltar. It's also one of the most stufied foreign languages in China. »

Et le russe rencontre un certain succès sur la Côte-d'Azur. Sans compter sa traditionnelle et symbolique présence à Paris (Russes blancs).
Caesar   Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:10 pm GMT
Well, Emperor is right. I think more or less the same.

Perhaps, I have more doubts: the power of Chinese and Arabic is underestimated by Emperor. I think this languages will be more important in the near future.

The situation is the next:

1. English is first of all World languages. But the problems come here:

2. Spanish is first in Latin America, second in North America, but fourth in European Union. Perhaps second, because of the slight fall of French.

3. French is third in North America, third in European Union and fourth in Africa. Slight fall.

4. Chinese is first in Asia & Pacific. Growing fast. Perhaps third in the near future.

5. Arabic is first in Africa & Middle East. Growing fast. Perhaps fourth in the near future.

6. Russian is first in CIS, former USSR, but no more areas.

7. German is second in European Union, but no more areas


In short, there is not a clear second World language. It depends on the continent or areas where you are. But if you need a top seven, this is my opinion.

The problem of French and German is that they are first in nowhere. The power of English in European Union have damaged them a lot.

On the other hand, Spanish, Chinese, Arabic and Russian are first in an important area or continent.
JLK   Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:21 pm GMT
Cesar: I think you're manipulating the stats. I can do the same with Spanish, for example. Spanish is 2nd in South America, 2nd in North America, 4th in Europe, 1st nowhere............

European Union is a political unit, the language order in Europe as a whole would be, Russian, German, English, French, as a far as native speakers are concerned. Millions of eastern Europeans are proficient in German so you underestimate it's importance a lot. As far as English hurting other languages in the EU, the truth is, it has hurt languages everywhere. More Brazilians study English than Spanish,etc..

Ridiculous statements like Chinese is first in Asia and pacific irritate me considering it has no practical use outside China's borders and English is far more studied than Mandarin in the surrounding countries.
Napoleon   Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:25 pm GMT
French is first in France. The rest of the world doesn't matter.
Caesar   Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:10 pm GMT
You are right in some things, only partially JLK.

Chinese: the most important financial Asian centers are Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore, Taipei, Hong Kong and Tokyo. So, Chinese has his influence area, but it is very, very important. Only Tokyo is not Chinese speaker area in this list.

Spanish: here you are right. If you only take into account South America, Portuguese is a little more spoken. If you take into account all Latin America, Spanish is more spoken. Anyway, I think that there is not a wall between Panama and Colombia.

European Union: in this area, the most spoken language is English. You need to take into account second language speakers. So, English is the most spoken and important language there.

German is very important. I do not underestimate this language. After the 6 UNO World languages, German is the most important. You must remember that German is ONLY SPOKEN IN CENTRAL EUROPE by .

A Polish, for instance, can study English, German, or other language. I think that English is more interesting for him/her, because in a lot of other European countries is not studied: France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc.

I am not sure if Russian, French, or Spanish are less important for a Polish, than German taking into account that these languages are UNO languages and German not.
Guest   Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:15 pm GMT
German is not really important in Europe despite it is the most spoken. Nordic countries prefer English instead of German, and Poland tends to be closer to France and Italy than to Germany because they are catholics. French used to be far more popular in Poland than German, and I don't think it will ever change.
JLK   Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:47 pm GMT
<<Chinese: the most important financial Asian centers are Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore, Taipei, Hong Kong and Tokyo. So, Chinese has his influence area, but it is very, very important. Only Tokyo is not Chinese speaker area in this list.>>

I guess you need to be more specific by what you mean by "Chinese". In Shanghai, you're more likely to hear Wu on the streets than Mandarin. In Hong Kong, Cantonese is by far more dominate than Mandarin and you can get by with English too due to it being a former colony. In Singapore, the language of administration is English, so again you hardly need Mandarin. You persist in manipulating the facts...

<<I am not sure if Russian, French, or Spanish are less important for a Polish, than German taking into account that these languages are UNO languages and German not.>>

United Nations means nothing. It is a useless/powerless organization. The official presence of languages in the UN reflects nothing upon their usefulness. The only reason German isn't one of them is for obvious historical reasons. Think WWII...German is far more important in Poland than those 3 other languages for sheer economic sensibility. If I recall correctly, Germany is Poland's largest trading partner.

<<Poland tends to be closer to France and Italy than to Germany because they are catholics. French used to be far more popular in Poland than German, and I don't think it will ever change.>>

First of all, half of Germany is Catholic. Secondly, German has for a long time been more important in Poland. Every other Pole I meet speaks decent German, not so for French.