English, German, & Dutch

guest   Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:56 pm GMT
It must be ''human'' of course!
Jupitar   Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:26 pm GMT
Whose translation is odd? The first one or mine as well? You don't seem to have changed much in mine apart from the 'ss' to 'ß', so I don't think you mean mine. Why do you have to say 'der Sprache ähnlich sehen' and not 'aussehen'?
Travis   Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:33 pm GMT
Can you guys please stop arguing about the specifics of that phrases particular translation into German? It really is not very relevant to the question at hand you, you must remember.

(Honestly, this kind of stuff is why I normally avoid the "Languages" forum here.)
Jupitar   Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:35 pm GMT
>>"Englisch ist nichts wie niederländisch, und es sieht wie es überhaupt nicht aus! Sie müssen halbblind sein. Deutsch hat gerade viele großbuchstaben, die es ein kleines bisschen verschieden verglichen mit anderen sprachen aussehen lassen." <<

Actually in defence of this version, which I'm not sure who wrote originally, it's not that bad, is it? The main problem is with the sentence structure of the final sentence, and a few words and phrases which make it sound too English. However, I can't see any errors in the grammar as far as morphology is concerned, which is often the most significant problem for learners of German. But this is just my opinion as a non-native speaker.
guest   Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:59 pm GMT
Jupitar, I meant the original version, not your verion from 12:56 pm GMT.

<<Why do you have to say 'der Sprache ähnlich sehen' and not 'aussehen'?>>

My version is grammatically correct, while the other version is not.
Jupitar   Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:12 pm GMT
It's not about grammar though, is it, it's just some kind of idiom. Because literally translated it means 'to see similar to the language'. And if you wanted to say 'They look similar, you would say 'Sie sehen ähnlich aus', would ye not?. I'm not disputing it of course, just wondering why you would use the equivalent of the verb 'to see' and not 'to look' in this construction.
guest   Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:08 pm GMT
Jupitar Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:56 pm GMT:

<<>>English is nothing like Dutch, and it doesn't look like it at all! You must be blind on one eye. German has just lots of capital letters which makes it "look" a little bit different compared to other languages<<

Englisch ist gar nicht wie Niederländisch, und sieht dieser Sprache überhaupt nicht ähnlich aus. Du bist wohl halb blind, oder? Das Deutsche hat einfach viele Grossbuchstaben, was zur Folge hat, dass es im Vergleich zu anderen Sprachen ein bisschen anders aussieht.>>

guest Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:51 pm GMT:

<<Englisch ist gar nicht wie Niederländisch, und sieht dieser Sprache überhaupt nicht ähnlich. Du bist wohl halbblind, oder? Das Deutsche hat einfach viele Großbuchstaben, was zur Folge hat, daß es im Vergleich zu anderen Sprachen ein bißchen anders aussieht.>>

Jupitar Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:12 pm GMT:

<<It's not about grammar though, is it, it's just some kind of idiom. Because literally translated it means 'to see similar to the language'. And if you wanted to say 'They look similar, you would say 'Sie sehen ähnlich aus', would ye not?. I'm not disputing it of course, just wondering why you would use the equivalent of the verb 'to see' and not 'to look' in this construction.>>

No, it's not a kind of idiom, it's standard usage.

Because literally translated it means 'to see similar to the language'.

No! Literally translated, it means: ''... and it doesn't resemble that language at all.''

''... und ähnelt dieser Sprache überhaupt nicht.'' would be another valid possibility.

''aussehen'' is not equal to ''sehen''.

''to look like'' is not equal to ''to look''.

They're different verbs!

''sehen ... aus'' is just one verb! Under certain conditions, the ''aus'' form the verb ''aussehen'' is seperated and moves to the last position of the sentence.

You can say:

Das Kind sieht seiner Mutter ähnlich.

Das Kind sieht ähnlich wie seine Mutter aus.

Das Kind ähnelt seiner Mutter.

But

Das Kind sieht gut aus. (The children looks good.)

Check out dict.leo.org on ''aussehen'' and on ''to look like''

You shouldn't draw conclusions about a language form the literal translation of its sentences into another one.

As far as I know English, 'to see similar to the language' would not be correct in Englisch, too.

''Sie sehen ähnlich aus!'' is correct, but needs some context. It's a statement.
guest   Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:11 pm GMT
<<Das Kind sieht gut aus. (The children looks good.)>>

It's of course ''The child looks good.''

Das Kind sieht ähnlich aus wie seine Mutter.

would also be acceptable.
guest   Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:14 pm GMT
Travis Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:33 pm GMT:

<<Can you guys please stop arguing about the specifics of that phrases particular translation into German? It really is not very relevant to the question at hand you, you must remember.

(Honestly, this kind of stuff is why I normally avoid the "Languages" forum here.)>>

Travis, this thread is about the comparison of English, Dutch and German. To do so, you need to have correct exemples, otherwise, you can draw any conclusion. So it's very relevant.
Leasnam   Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:59 pm GMT
<<Travis, this thread is about the comparison of English, Dutch and German. To do so, you need to have correct exemples, otherwise, you can draw any conclusion. So it's very relevant. >>

*This comment is not for the particulars of this thread, but the attitude about "proper German" on this forum in general.

um, "guest" [Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:14 pm GMT], what about all the other times I see comments regarding usage errors with German?

You're absolutely right--it *is* relevant, because as a native English speaker I make usage errors with German ALL THE TIME (albeit few grammatical errors; Germans understand what I'm saying, I just sound a little off). More evidence to the point that English shares more of certain qualities with Dutch, because I never seem to make so many usage errors with Dutch.

I can feel confident speaking and posting in Dutch unlike in German, because the Dutch do not have fascist Sprachpolizei around to come down excessively hard on me if I slip up in the slightest of ways--and to do it so rudely. I would never be this rude to a non-native English learner. How discouraging!

Put your personal feelings and grudges aside, <insert name>.

That's just uncalled for. German is obviously *someone's* (ahem) Muttersprach. ;)
Have a little grace for God's sake.
Mira   Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:09 pm GMT
Dutch and German share countless similiarities, that is to say in most instances. So why is it that English is rather different? Someone once brought up that Celtic substratum theory. What's it all about?
Buddy   Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:05 am GMT
<<Someone once brought up that Celtic substratum theory. What's it all about? >>

Not much I believe, just something new and fanciful to talk about. Most regions of Europe were previously inhabited by Celtic speakers, not only the British Isles: Spain/Portugal, Belgium, France, Southern Germany, etc.

If English--and I stress the word *if*-- if English has any notable Celtic substratum effects (and personally, I see few except in recent years due to Scottish and Irish influences on Modern English), then so too do most languages of Europe.

It's just a "root for the underdog" notion in my opinion. We always root for the underdog right? Had the Celts been the majority influence we would hate them and no one would be interested in hearing about any theories postulated about them. But I'm game--I'd love to at least hear what it's all about...
Buddy   Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:17 am GMT
<<So why is it that English is rather different?>>

English is not as different as you think, but it does show some diversion; not because of Celtic substratum, but because of 3 notable reasons:

1). Being an Anglo-Frisian language and having split from other non-Ingaeovonic West Germanic languages at an earlier point in time,

2). as Travis pointed out, because of semantic and syntactical drift due to reason #1 and also due to isolation from the Dutch-German Sprach-continuum, which later influenced all other continental Germanic languages to a high degree, and

3). because of the prolonged pre-Hanseatic influenced (i.e. original or old) North Germanic influence upon English.

Sat?
Jupitar   Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:04 pm GMT
Yes, I have just looked up 'jmdm/etw ähnlich sehen' and see that it means 'to resemble someone/something'. I just wasn't aware that the verb 'sehen' could also be used to mean 'to resemble' as well. However thinking about it, it does sound familiar, so I have obviously heard or seen it used in this context before, just never consciously registered its meaning, possibly because of the similar constructions with 'aussehen' and thinking that 'sehen' only really meant 'to see'.

Na, es ist aber immer eine gute Sache, was Neues zu lernen!
Saturn   Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:10 pm GMT
"I can feel confident speaking and posting in Dutch unlike in German, because the Dutch do not have fascist Sprachpolizei around to come down excessively hard on me if I slip up in the slightest of ways--and to do it so rudely. I would never be this rude to a non-native English learner. How discouraging!"

Mach mal halblang, Leasnam und hör bitte auf solchen Unsinn zu schreiben, nur weil du dich nach einer albernen Auseinandersetzung persönlich angegriffen fühlst. Direkt alle Deutsche über einen Kamm zu scheren und zu behaupten, sie würden Nichtmuttersprachler ständig in der Art einer "faschistischen Sprachpolizei" verbessern zeigt nur, dass du ungerechtfertigte Vorurteile hast. Vielleicht solltest du mal nach Deutschland kommen und selbst beobachten, wie die meisten Deutschen tatsächlich reagieren, wenn sich ein Fremdsprachiger, i.b. ein US-Amerikaner in ihrer Muttersprache übt :-)

Übrigens bin ich nicht 'guest' !