Are Portuguese and Brazilian the same language?

American English is not corrupted British English, but a separate (and predominant) norm of English, with its own orthography, pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary.
The same is true of Brazilian Portuguese, which has been changing gradually since the early days (1500).

Americans and Brazilians don't mystify the language, they just use it naturally, just let it flow, it's just the way it's got to be.

"American English is not corrupted British English, but a separate (and predominant) norm of English, with its own orthography, pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary.
The same is true of Brazilian Portuguese, which has been changing gradually since the early days (1500). "

Obrigado Milton!!!

"..."desjejun" was borrowed from the Spanish word Desayuno."

"DESJEJUM" WAS NOT BORROWED FROM THE SPANISH WORD "DESAYUNO".

"Desjejum" comes from vulgar latin "disjejunare". The portuguese word is closer to the latin word than the spanish word. Even the french word "dejeuner" as well as its italian equivalent are closer to "disjejunare". The spanish word "desayuno" is the one which deviates most from the original "disjejunare". So if there should have been any borrowed word here from a romance language to another (which I consider very unlikely), then it is the word "desayuno".

J.C. : ..."Personally I don't know anyone who doesn't drink coffee in the morning." ..." Brazilians don't drink so much tee because there's an image that TEA is for sick people..."

This was not only amusing but also a sign of the inflexible "small-town" character of the expression "café da manhã".
Furthermore your arguments are also an indication that you personally do not have any contact with foreigners or tourists in your country. You brazilians tend to belittle the contribution of portuguese genes to the formation of modern brazilians, and always boast of having huge colonies of white europeans (germans, poles, italians, etc.) and asians (especially japanese). Poor foreigners living in Brazil or tourists who do not drink coffee for breakfast and have to say "Café da manhã" instead of "desjejum" or "pequeno almoço", lest that they be mocked.

JC wrote: "....Based on that I think you should compare written language if you want to have a better result..." How about using "Machado de Assis" to do your comparison..."

My intention is not to belittle the works by Machado de Assis', but please answer these questions honestly: What is the percentage of Brazilians who write like "Machado de Assis"? How many Brazilians use the language like he did? How many brazilians write like "Machado de Assis" when using the internet?
We are discussing differences between Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese as they are spoken and written nowadays; we are not focusing on literature of the 19th century. If you had proposed to compare modern or contemporary authors, maybe I would have understood your logic... In order to make you understand better what I mean, imagine I would propose works by "Luís de Camoes" as a prime example of modern European Portuguese. What would think of my proposal?

P.S.: Another example of the hate and disdain that you brazilians feel for everything related to your portuguese heritage is that you affirm that Machado de Assis (probably the most important writer of brazilian literature) was a black writer ("escritor negro"), just to belittle or hide the fact that his mother was a portuguese woman.

["This was not only amusing but also a sign of the inflexible "small-town" character of the expression "café da manhã".]
Guest: I guess it's useless to explain you that Brazilians drink coffee in the morning...

[Furthermore your arguments are also an indication that you personally do not have any contact with foreigners or tourists in your country. ]
Wrong again! I live in Japan and work in a foreign company where I use English EVERYDAY!!! My coworkers are from Estonia, Australia, Canada and Pakistan. Maybe that's not international...

"Poor foreigners living in Brazil or tourists who do not drink coffee for breakfast and have to say "Café da manhã" instead of "desjejum" or "pequeno almoço", lest that they be mocked. "
Well, the only reason not to say "café da manhã" is that people weren't raised in the Brazilian culture but the point is that the expression shows the BRAZILIAN culture...

"In order to make you understand better what I mean, imagine I would propose works by "Luís de Camoes" as a prime example of modern European Portuguese. What would think of my proposal? "
I think that's a little old for that...I just wonder if you can read it...

"How many Brazilians use the language like he did? How many brazilians write like "Machado de Assis" when using the internet? "
Even though not many Brazilians can write like Machado's style, there's no way to generalize the way Brazilians write on the internet. Personally I don't use the distorted Portuguese used for chatting or posting.

"We are discussing differences between Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese as they are spoken and written nowadays; we are not focusing on literature of the 19th century."
Machado died in the 20th century and his writing style is still modern and read at schools and therefore can be used as an example of written languages. In case you don't know Machado de Assis is mandatory reading for "Instituto Rio Branco", which prepares diplomates for their careers. I just wanted to show you that Brazilian Portuguese has its beauty and grammar because you consider it a "mess".

"hate and disdain that you brazilians feel for everything related to your portuguese heritage"
Now I guess thay you're showing who feel hatred because in NONE of my postings I've attacked the Portuguese since the focus is THE LANGUAGE.
I descend on the Ferreira, Gomes, Pereira, Scipião and Silva!! I have no reason to criticize my ancestors. If you have read my former postings you'll know that I thank the Portuguese for the practical language. I tell you that your views on Brazilians is totally wrong because NOT ALL Brazilians hate the Portuguese. If you come to Brazil or meet smart Brazilians you'll realize that!!

"is that you affirm that Machado de Assis (probably the most important writer of brazilian literature) was a black writer ("escritor negro"), just to belittle or hide the fact that his mother was a portuguese woman."
I guess you have a deep inferiority complex because I wasn't thinking about Machado's race neither trying to hide his Portuguese roots. When I chose him (I even forgot he was black) I was more interested in his talents. He was an AWESOME writer because he was MACHADO(I also like Clarice Lispector, Carlos Drummond de Andrade, José Saramago and other writers) and it doesn't matter if he descended on Portuguese or not. I think that your posting shows that he couldn't be a good writer because he was black. That really makes me feel sad...

"You brazilians tend to belittle the contribution of portuguese genes to the formation of modern brazilians, and always boast of having huge colonies of white europeans (germans, poles, italians, etc.) and asians (especially japanese). "
Even though you started with a racist subject I'll reply YOUR posting (I hate to start a sentence quoting a country or nationality because it's racist).
Please read my postings again and you will see that I was saying that Brazil isn't a BLACK nation but has contributions from many immigrants (Southern Brazil has most of the European immigration)but Rio de Janeiro and Bahia are the places where most slaves went to, reason why African influence can be seen more clearly. I also said that there's a trend to certain races to settle in some regions. I don't boast about Europeans or Japanese having come to Brazil because I don't see anything worse or them (I guess they came to Brazil because they didn't have much opportunity in their countries. Now we have the opposite because Brazilians are looking for better opportunities in Europe and Japan).
I am Brazilian and I don't see any reason to be proud a culture I don't know. However, I don't criticize or belittle as you are saying. As far as I've seen you're the only one trying to belittle the language (Culture too) spoken by Brazilians.
By the way, I'm waiting your view on Imperative in Brazilian Portuguese.
p.s How many Brazilians do you know? Have you ever been to Brazil?
If you know a dozen of Brazilians (With little education and therefore racists. You see, most Portuguese I've met in Japan are very nice and educated people and I have no reason to that "Portuguese" people are so and so. Rather, I know that I don't know enough about the country)

" I don't see anything worse or them"-I meant I don't see anything better or worse in Europeans or Japanese...After 10 years abroad and having met MANY people from other countries I've seen that there are smart and not so smart people (Race doesn't matter)...That's it!!

«««"Café da manhã" is a misleading, innacurate, confusing term to name the first meal of the day.»»»

What about 'breakfast'? A fast break? Or a break of the fast?
What if the break is not fast at all but rather slowly?
What if no fasting is broken?

<<"..."desjejun" was borrowed from the Spanish word Desayuno."

"DESJEJUM" WAS NOT BORROWED FROM THE SPANISH WORD "DESAYUNO".

"Desjejum" comes from vulgar latin "disjejunare". The portuguese word is closer to the latin word than the spanish word. Even the french word "dejeuner" as well as its italian equivalent are closer to "disjejunare". The spanish word "desayuno" is the one which deviates most from the original "disjejunare". So if there should have been any borrowed word here from a romance language to another (which I consider very unlikely), then it is the word "desayuno".
>>

In Latin exists ieiunare , and it means to break. Disieiunare didn't exist as such. And I don't know how can desjejum be closer to iaiunare than desayuno. The spelling maybe is closer, despite there is one m and Spanish has the original n, but the Portuguese pronouce words weirdly, not like the Spanish so phonetically the spanish word is closer to its latin root. According to RAE desayunar doesn't derive from anything but directly from the latin root ieiunare

I have come to know that Dutch and German are very similar to each other.

"In Latin exists ieiunare, and it means to break. Disieiunare didn't exist as such..."

You din't understand my post. I said it is very unlikely that there has been any word borrowing between the romance language regarding the words they use for breakfast.
There is (or was) one thing called "Late Latin" for your information. Regarding the existence of the word "disjejunare" look up in other dictionaries, like e.g. the "Oxford Dictionary of the English Language". According to the Oxford, even the english words dinner and dine, which of course do not have anything to do with breakfast in modern English, come ultimately from "dis"+ Late Latin "jejunare".

Oxford:
Dinner [Middle English from Old French diner, disner].
Dine [Middle English from Old French diner, disner, ultimately from DIS+Late Latin jejunare from jejunus/ieiunus 'fasting']

Furthermore, you do not have any idea of Classical Latin either. Ieiunare (and not iaiunare, as you wrongly spelled it) did not exist in Classical Latin. And in Vulgar Latin it does not mean break! It means to fast. The Classical Latin equivalent of 'to fast' is "cibo abstinere".

I was only familiar with Brazilian Portuguese when I heard Continental Portuguese for the first time but, I could understand it even though the accent startled me. It still startles me.

So startling I forgot how to punctuate in English apparently...lol.

"So startling I forgot how to punctuate in English apparently...lol."
K.Tさん:Welcome to the world of polyglots then!!!Now you know a lot of languages but none of them at the same time :)
Everytime I go back to Brazil people ask me where I come from and the first time I heard a Carioca accent English "Mister, would you like to exchange dollars"? Second time I went home I heard "Gostaria de cambiar dólares"?
I wonder in which language people will talk to me next time!!!

Tchau!!

Spanish should simply absorb Portugal and Brazil into the hispanosphere, something that should have happened many years ago. Portuguese is basically a diatect of Spanish and Brazilians can understand Spanish better, so why not?

"I was only familiar with Brazilian Portuguese when I heard Continental Portuguese for the first time but, I could understand it even though the accent startled me. It still startles me."
K.Tさん:Wow, your Portuguese is better then mine then. First time I heard a Portuguese person speaking I had to speak in English because I couldn't understand.Now I understand better, though...
Maybe the person I talked to could be from "Porto", which is said to be difficult to understand.

Fui!!