Spanish is not so important as latin-americans praise!
Rafael,
I am a Portuguese-American. My parents imigrated to the states from Portugal in 1980. They taught me to speak fluent 'European' Portuguese. I have spent a lot of time in Portugal, but I have always been facinated with Brazil and it's sexy dialect. I would love to travel to Brazil and immerse myself in the culture. I heard however, that Portuguese are not well liked in Brazil. Locals do not appreciate their presence and give them a slang name of 'portuga'. I dont know it these tales of harassment are true, so I thought you could tell me what you have experienced.
'' heard however, that Portuguese are not well liked in Brazil. Locals do not appreciate their presence and give them a slang name of 'portuga'. I dont know it these tales of harassment are true, so I thought you could tell me what you have experienced''
Well, many Portuguese people come to Brazil with the position: ''Brazil is a Portuguese land'', ''We Portuguese should have all the rights in Brazil, we are no strangers here''
To us, Brazilians, Portuguese people are as foreign as Spanish, Italian and German. You are just NOT Brazilians and we are just NOT Portuguese. 12 % of Brazilians claim their direct Portuguese roots; compare it to 11% of Brazilians of Italian roots, 8% Brazilians of German roots, 2 % Brazilians of Polish roots and 1 % of Japanese origin.
Portuguese people are strangers and foreigners in Brazil. Brazil and Portuguese share some history book facts and that's it. Slavery and pain cannot be forgotten easily.
Thaina
>>>Slavery and pain cannot be forgotten easily. <<<
It must have been very painfull to you. Are you an african slave? Are you a descendent of African slaves or are you a descendent of Brazilian slave conductors?
>>>12 % of Brazilians claim their direct Portuguese roots; compare it to 11% of Brazilians of Italian roots, 8% Brazilians of German roots, 2 % Brazilians of Polish roots and 1 % of Japanese origin.<<<
And you have slave roots!!
>>>Slavery and pain cannot be forgotten easily.<<<
This is as silly as if someone would blame his mother for her mother's own pain at the time of the birth.
Besides, I don't see portuguese people of today as the "mother/father", but rather as cousins or even brothers of today's brazillians. Past is a distant place, as much for brazillians as it is for portuguese people living today.
Rui voçê tem toda a razão, tem gente falando besteira neste forum e está apenas está a fazer figura de anta. A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num asno. Nunca vi alguem falar tanta besteira e muito menos em nome dos Brazileiros.
Rui voçê tem toda a razão, tem gente falando besteira neste forum e está apenas está a fazer figura de anta. A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num asno. Nunca vi alguem falar tanta besteira e muito menos em nome dos Brazileiros.
voçê *spelling error ; should be: você
toda a razão = full right. every right: toda razão
neste forum* sounds too formal, today nesse would be preferred
está a fazer *obsolete; gerund is preferred: está fazendo
A Thainá *informal regional; article is normally not used will persons' names: Thainá
asno *regional and obsolete; donkey is said jumento in current Brazilian Portuguese
"John
Rui voçê tem toda a razão, tem gente falando besteira neste forum e está apenas está a fazer figura de anta. A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num asno. Nunca vi alguem falar tanta besteira e muito menos em nome dos Brazileiros."
>>>voçê *spelling error ; should be: você <<<
Thank you, only this is correct, I do not have the ç key anyway, it is a typing mistake, I can see you can also make them your self.
>>>toda a razão = full right. every right: toda razão
This you wrote does not make sense at all you say "toda a razão" in Brazil and write it too.
>neste forum* sounds too formal, today nesse would be preferred<
Formal? "nesse forum" is wrong even in Brazil, and it has nothing to do with being formal... if in Brazil people did not know the diference between "this" and "that" it would be a problem ....(pronome demonstrativo).
>está a fazer *obsolete; gerund is preferred: está fazendo<
You can say it both ways in Brazil it is correct. Brazilians prefer the gerund they did not exterminate the present and we use it in many ocasions.
>A Thainá *informal regional; article is normally not used will persons' names: Thainá <
Yes it is correct you use the article. You also do not write "will persons'" you write "with" .
Just show me a grammar that says that this is wrong in Brazil.
"Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num asno."
This would look too bad even in Brazil, you have to use the article.
>>>asno *regional and obsolete; donkey is said jumento in current Brazilian Portuguese<<<
Jumento, burrico, burro, asno, jerico or jegue it is current Brazilian Portuguese, any word would be correct, only the donkeys are disapearing not the words.
Any word in Brazil is regional there is not a better or worst regional word.
You can correct typing mistakes but I have been to school in Brazil, no one writes the way you say.
If you want I can give you a few examples to illustrate what I say, the web is full of sites written by brazilians.
A discussão sobre as distinções entre a fala de Portugal e a do Brasil se mantêm até hoje. A nossa estrutura gramatical continua bem próxima do português europeu. O brasileiro incorporou empréstimos de termos não só das línguas indígenas e africanas, mas do francês, do espanhol, do italiano, do inglês. Mas a maior parte do nosso vocabulário é idêntica a do português europeu. As diferenças fonéticas são notáveis. E algumas distinções semânticas também se verificam em palavras como "estação" e "trem", que em Portugal são "gare" e "comboio". Para o lingüista brasileiro Mário Perini, professor convidado da Universidade do Mississipi, nos EUA, as mudanças na língua são naturais, e pode até ser que um dia a fala do brasileiro chegue a ser considerada um idioma distinto do português europeu (Veja entrevista nesta edição). "É o que fatalmente acontece quando duas comunidades linguísticas se separam geograficamente", afirma Perini.
source:
http://www.comciencia.br/reportagens/linguagem/ling03.htm
"E algumas distinções semânticas também se verificam em palavras como "estação" e "trem", que em Portugal são "gare" e "comboio"."
It is interesting to know how little Brazilians know about EuPortuguese
"gare" is not used instead of "estação" gare is where trains are repaired or park while not in use. Portuguese also use "estação" same way as in Brazil. "Comboio" is used but "trem" is a group of things can be used like in "trem de cozinha".
"uma peculiaridade sintática, originada na fala dos escravos, que até hoje é apontada como uma das distinções entre o português falado em Portugal e o que se fala no Brasil: a colocação de pronomes átonos antes dos verbos(mi deu, ti falô)."
Brazilians speak the way slaves used to speak (in the colloquial speach)but remember slaves did not go to school. Today Afrian Portuguese speakers are speaking an educated Portuguese.
This is very interesting Africans are speaking like the educated Portuguese and the Brazilians are speaking like the uneducated African slaves.
"as mudanças na língua são naturais, e pode até ser que um dia a fala do brasileiro chegue a ser considerada um idioma distinto do português europeu"
Agree it may one day be considered a different language from EuPortuguese but today it is not, so the discussion if it is a different language or not makes no sense, and when that happens it will be considered a creole of Portuguese and all the great Brazilian writers will be lost for the Brazilian literature.
Oh, I was wondering if European Portuguese is considered as a nobiliary and elegant style, but Brazilian Portuguese sounds uncultured and uneducated by those who speak Standard Portuguese in Europe?
Thanks!
Chinese.
Sorry, Now I have to amend some faults as follows:
but Brazilian Portuguese is considered as uncultured and uneducated language by those who speak Standard Portuguese in Europe?
"""Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num asno."
This would look too bad even in Brazil, you have to use the article.""
Agree, the article has to be used in this sentence.
This also looks correct:
"A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num jumento."
"A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num burrico."
"A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num burro."
"A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num jerico."
"A Thainá parece que fugiu da senzala montada num jegue."
Asno is a stronger word than burrico, you can use if you want to give more emphasis to the sentence and looks fair to say it to someone that is is telling a lie.
You can read a story of Esopo writen for children (they use very modern Brazilian with children) that uses the word "asno":
"O Asno e a Raposa tendo feito um acordo de proteção mútua, entraram na floresta em busca de alimento.
Não foram muito longe e encontraram um Leão.
A Raposa, vendo o perigo iminente, aproximou-se do Leão e propôs um acordo onde iria ajudá-lo a capturar o Asno, se este desse sua palavra de honra que ele próprio não seria molestado.
Diante do compromisso assumido do Leão, a Raposa atraiu o Asno a uma profunda gruta e o convenceu a entrar lá dentro.
O Leão vendo que o Asno já estava assegurado, imediatamente agarrou a Raposa e quando achou mais conveniente, também atacou o Asno."
Autor: Esopo
Moral da História:
Uma pessoa sem escrúpulos persegue apenas seus interesses. Pouco importa os meios que use para consegui-lo.
http://sitededicas.uol.com.br/fabula6a.htm
Chinese
"but Brazilian Portuguese is considered as uncultured and uneducated language by those who speak Standard Portuguese in Europe?"
Of course not, it is considered an educated version of Portuguese, when people make grammar mistakes in EuPortuguese or BrazilianPortuguese that is considered uneducated for both versions. Portuguese do not make any comments of BrazilianPortuguese being an uneducated or uncultural language they only do not like grammar mistakes in any version of Portuguese. Brazilians are the ones that have a big language prejudice.
"De fato, como os Parâmetros enfatizam, existe um profundo preconceito lingüístico no Brasil"
http://www.unb.br/abralin/index.php?id=8&boletim=25&tema=07
There is a deep language prejudice in Brazil not in Portugal.
Bad grammar has nothing to do with language prejudice but with good education just like in any other country.
If you speak or write chinese and you make grammar mistakes what people tell you?
"Oh, I was wondering if European Portuguese is considered as a nobiliary and elegant style"
Portuguese would laugh if they read this. Portuguese is Portuguese just learn grammar and there is not a nobiliary and elegant style unless you write in XVIII style. Or in other words any version of Portuguese is "nobiliary and elegant" if you learn the grammar and do not make spelling mistakes.
''Brazilians speak the way slaves used to speak (in the colloquial speach)but remember slaves did not go to school. Today Afrian Portuguese speakers are speaking an educated Portuguese. '' (by Gringo)
Gringo, get a grip, you know niente, zip, nada on Brazilian (portuguese).
Your position is pretty offensive.
Should we conclude that Americans speak I JUST DID because the slaves spoke this way and Americans never went to school to learn to say I'VE JUST DONE?
Nonsense.