yes, I have everything from Wiki and my own dictionaries...thank you for the link, gonna check it out!
what makes English Germanic?
Hm, can't enter that catalogue...they ask me for reader number...darn, now I will never find out what makes English Germanic? ;-) :-)
Ok, the link was asking for the password and other stuff...but some general overview is possible...still no summaries on what the books are about...aaargh!
could you explain the reasons for the similities and differences in the pairs of wirds: child- children, feed- food, wise - wisdom, tooth- dental??
child - children - ancient plural, still normal in German
feed - food - consonat change was used to make a new word. Very normal in Germanic languages.
wise - wisdom - dom is a normal Germanic suffix that signifies an abstract noun
tooth - dental - adjective concerning teeth from Latin dens = tooth
feed - food - consonat change was used to make a new word. Very normal in Germanic languages.
wise - wisdom - dom is a normal Germanic suffix that signifies an abstract noun
tooth - dental - adjective concerning teeth from Latin dens = tooth
I wrote:
"consonat change was used to make a new word."
I meant VOWEL change...
"consonat change was used to make a new word."
I meant VOWEL change...
Tanja: >>Can anyone give me examples of pure Germanic features in English language? Vocabulary-wise, grammar-wise etc.....something that proves that English is still Germanic...something that strongly connects Old English and Modern English...<<
Even if it seems to be impossible to produce anything "pure Germanic" in Modern English without sounding contrived, I think it is still possible to write using mostly Germanic vocabulary in the domain of poetry. The strongest proof for me are the poems of Dylan Thomas, part of the impact of his poems comes from his use of chiefly "Germanic" vocabulary. My favourite poem by him, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night", for example, contains predominantly words of "authentic" Germanic origin, with only a few exceptions. Another such poet, American this time, is Robert Frost (see his poem "Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening", for example). It seems to me that once English-speaking poets (modern poets as well) want to convey depth of feeling or of thought, they mostly resort to "familiar" words of Germanic origin. Gone, it seems, are the times when loftiness was associated with the use of largely formal vocabulary derived for the most part from Latin or French (this was characteristic to English literature in the 18th and to some degree in the 19th century, especially to narratives, but even then, it was not exclusive, just one layer of style). Now most readers would probably find such use dated or even ironic. But I tend to think that even foreign words, having once become parts of common use, feel more "English" than "French" or "Latin". For example, "pray" is a genuine English word for me, even if I know that it comes from French "prier".
On the other hand, legal language relies heavily on Latin or Romance vocabulary, so it would be impossible to produce anything similar in that domain. However, the proportion of Germanic words in everyday use is much higher than in formal use.
The reason why English does not seem even to resemble German in its use of Germanic word stock is that meaning shifts have gone on, along with phonological changes, most notably the Great Vowel Shift and some minor ones. English and German (meaning Modern Standard German) seem to be at the opposite ends of the Germanic language continuum. Dutch, on the other hand, has a lot more in common with English, even if it resembles German more on the whole (compare "it is" and "het is", for example, meaning exactly the same - in some Middle English dialects, "it" was "hit", by the way).
The curious thing about Germanic languages is that they exhibit a far larger divergence in vocabulary (and to some extent, grammatical features) than do Romance or Slavic languages (it is enough to compare English with Dutch, German or Low Saxon, or the latter three with Scandinavian languages, which have undergone a similar simplification that English has, and have even triggered this simplification, due to language contacts during the Danish rule over England). The only real difference in case of English with regard to all the rest is that (again due to close historical contacts) English has absorbed a far larger amount of words of Romance origin, which did trigger a loss of a great deal of its Germanic vocabulary. Still, its basic morphemes (personal or possessive pronouns, possessive adjectives and verb roots, among others) are still recognizable cognates of those in other Germanic languages, although the syntax has changed considerably.
Even if it seems to be impossible to produce anything "pure Germanic" in Modern English without sounding contrived, I think it is still possible to write using mostly Germanic vocabulary in the domain of poetry. The strongest proof for me are the poems of Dylan Thomas, part of the impact of his poems comes from his use of chiefly "Germanic" vocabulary. My favourite poem by him, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night", for example, contains predominantly words of "authentic" Germanic origin, with only a few exceptions. Another such poet, American this time, is Robert Frost (see his poem "Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening", for example). It seems to me that once English-speaking poets (modern poets as well) want to convey depth of feeling or of thought, they mostly resort to "familiar" words of Germanic origin. Gone, it seems, are the times when loftiness was associated with the use of largely formal vocabulary derived for the most part from Latin or French (this was characteristic to English literature in the 18th and to some degree in the 19th century, especially to narratives, but even then, it was not exclusive, just one layer of style). Now most readers would probably find such use dated or even ironic. But I tend to think that even foreign words, having once become parts of common use, feel more "English" than "French" or "Latin". For example, "pray" is a genuine English word for me, even if I know that it comes from French "prier".
On the other hand, legal language relies heavily on Latin or Romance vocabulary, so it would be impossible to produce anything similar in that domain. However, the proportion of Germanic words in everyday use is much higher than in formal use.
The reason why English does not seem even to resemble German in its use of Germanic word stock is that meaning shifts have gone on, along with phonological changes, most notably the Great Vowel Shift and some minor ones. English and German (meaning Modern Standard German) seem to be at the opposite ends of the Germanic language continuum. Dutch, on the other hand, has a lot more in common with English, even if it resembles German more on the whole (compare "it is" and "het is", for example, meaning exactly the same - in some Middle English dialects, "it" was "hit", by the way).
The curious thing about Germanic languages is that they exhibit a far larger divergence in vocabulary (and to some extent, grammatical features) than do Romance or Slavic languages (it is enough to compare English with Dutch, German or Low Saxon, or the latter three with Scandinavian languages, which have undergone a similar simplification that English has, and have even triggered this simplification, due to language contacts during the Danish rule over England). The only real difference in case of English with regard to all the rest is that (again due to close historical contacts) English has absorbed a far larger amount of words of Romance origin, which did trigger a loss of a great deal of its Germanic vocabulary. Still, its basic morphemes (personal or possessive pronouns, possessive adjectives and verb roots, among others) are still recognizable cognates of those in other Germanic languages, although the syntax has changed considerably.
Brennus,
I am aware of the differences between the two branches of Celtic languages, I did not cite them only because I do not know enough about them. What struck me though at a time, though, is that the Goidelic branch of Celtic languages (Irish and Scots Gaelic, as well as Manx) has undergone a "velarisation" and "palatalisation" with regard to the Indo-European labiovelars (cf. Irish Gaelic "ceathair" with Latin "quattuor", "four"). On the other hand, in the Brittanic or P-Celtic languages, the same sounds became labial or labiodental, as in the Germanic ones ("four" is "pedwar" in Welsh, while it was "fidwor" in Gothic). Can the similarity of P-Celtic and Germanic forms be due to the fact that a Celtic substratum influenced the evolution of sounds in Germanic languages? I do not know which of the two types the continental Celtic languages belonged to, but the Celts were basically everywhere in Europe before the rise of the Roman Empire and the subsequent expansion of Germanic peoples, so I suppose this could have been possible.
I am aware of the differences between the two branches of Celtic languages, I did not cite them only because I do not know enough about them. What struck me though at a time, though, is that the Goidelic branch of Celtic languages (Irish and Scots Gaelic, as well as Manx) has undergone a "velarisation" and "palatalisation" with regard to the Indo-European labiovelars (cf. Irish Gaelic "ceathair" with Latin "quattuor", "four"). On the other hand, in the Brittanic or P-Celtic languages, the same sounds became labial or labiodental, as in the Germanic ones ("four" is "pedwar" in Welsh, while it was "fidwor" in Gothic). Can the similarity of P-Celtic and Germanic forms be due to the fact that a Celtic substratum influenced the evolution of sounds in Germanic languages? I do not know which of the two types the continental Celtic languages belonged to, but the Celts were basically everywhere in Europe before the rise of the Roman Empire and the subsequent expansion of Germanic peoples, so I suppose this could have been possible.
Dear Ericka,
The reason that English is not a Romance Language even though approximately half of the words derive from latin and french is quite simple.
English has a germanic or saxon based syntax not a latin one.
All of the Romance languages have a much different grammar system than english, In that: they maintain masculine and feminie nouns (or in Romanian masculine feminine, and neuter). Though this feature alone distinguishes english from the romance languages there are also others, such as when reffering to an elderly person or a person of authority or stranger in a romance language, it is common to say "your highness" instead of "you". English has this but not when reffering only when refering to the royal family or a judge in fromal situations. Thus english although lexically close to the romance family is regarded as a germic language because of its rather simple and vulgar syntax.
In short, its not the words that tells you what type of language it is, rather, the way you say them.
regards Octavian
The reason that English is not a Romance Language even though approximately half of the words derive from latin and french is quite simple.
English has a germanic or saxon based syntax not a latin one.
All of the Romance languages have a much different grammar system than english, In that: they maintain masculine and feminie nouns (or in Romanian masculine feminine, and neuter). Though this feature alone distinguishes english from the romance languages there are also others, such as when reffering to an elderly person or a person of authority or stranger in a romance language, it is common to say "your highness" instead of "you". English has this but not when reffering only when refering to the royal family or a judge in fromal situations. Thus english although lexically close to the romance family is regarded as a germic language because of its rather simple and vulgar syntax.
In short, its not the words that tells you what type of language it is, rather, the way you say them.
regards Octavian
English is a Germanic language because it is descended from the Germanic branch of the Indo-European languages. Languages are classified by ancestry not by their borrowings from other languages. As a very rough analogy, animals and plants are classified in the same way scientifically resulting in whales being classified as mammals rather than fish.
Let's compare the English numbers with their equivalents in two other Germanic languages, English first, then Afrikaans, then German.
one - een - eins
two - twee - zwei
three - drie - drei
four - vier - vier
five - vyf - fünf
six - ses - sechs
seven - sewe - sieben
eight - ag(t) - acht
nine - nege - neun
ten - tien - zehn
As you can see they are more similar than the French equivalents would be. Everyday words are more likely to be of Germanic origin than less-commonly used words. Here are some English/Afrikaans pairs that come to mind:
apple/appel, blood/bloed, blue/blou, bread/brood, day/dag, dead/dood, green/groen, heart/hart, hand/hand, night/nag, rain/reën, sun/son, fish/vis, water/water, warm/warm, wind/wind, wood/woud
To Octavian, grammatical gender is found in both Germanic and Romance languages. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) all Romance languages have grammatical gender (I'm thinking of French, Spanish, Italian and Romanian) and most but not all Germanic languages do too. The ancestral Germanic tongue had grammatical gender which is retained in German and Dutch, but has been lost in English and Afrikaans. Please do not call languages vulgar as it is offensive.
Let's compare the English numbers with their equivalents in two other Germanic languages, English first, then Afrikaans, then German.
one - een - eins
two - twee - zwei
three - drie - drei
four - vier - vier
five - vyf - fünf
six - ses - sechs
seven - sewe - sieben
eight - ag(t) - acht
nine - nege - neun
ten - tien - zehn
As you can see they are more similar than the French equivalents would be. Everyday words are more likely to be of Germanic origin than less-commonly used words. Here are some English/Afrikaans pairs that come to mind:
apple/appel, blood/bloed, blue/blou, bread/brood, day/dag, dead/dood, green/groen, heart/hart, hand/hand, night/nag, rain/reën, sun/son, fish/vis, water/water, warm/warm, wind/wind, wood/woud
To Octavian, grammatical gender is found in both Germanic and Romance languages. As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) all Romance languages have grammatical gender (I'm thinking of French, Spanish, Italian and Romanian) and most but not all Germanic languages do too. The ancestral Germanic tongue had grammatical gender which is retained in German and Dutch, but has been lost in English and Afrikaans. Please do not call languages vulgar as it is offensive.
Even if half of the words in English derive from Latin or French, English is still Germanic. The French and Latin influence can often be overstated, especially, when you consider that one native English word can have several latin synonyms even though the native word may be more common in usage. For example, the word 'buy' being used instead of 'purchase' or 'acquire' or 'Earnings' being used instead of 'pay', 'salary' or 'remuneration'.
La proportion des mots franco-latins est bien supérieure à 50 %. La plupart des gens estiment qu'elle atteint déjà 30 % dans la langue parlée.
greg is just foccussing on the Latin influence of English so that we ignore the Germanic (Frankish) influence on French.
Pas du tout mon cher « Guest » : l'impact de la langue franque sur le français se résume à 544 mots.
Ed : bienvenue sur ce forum *M*U*L*T*I*L*I*N*G*U*E* —> toutes les langues sont "étrangères" bien qu'aucune ne le soit vraiment. Mais ton esprit, lui, est toujours bien étranger à cette philosophie. Dommage.
NB : un dictionnaire et un peu de curiosité te simplifieraient la vie. Si tel n'est pas ton avis, alors abstiens-toi de ce genre de commentaire ou, encore plus facile, NE ME LIS PAS. Merci.
Ed : bienvenue sur ce forum *M*U*L*T*I*L*I*N*G*U*E* —> toutes les langues sont "étrangères" bien qu'aucune ne le soit vraiment. Mais ton esprit, lui, est toujours bien étranger à cette philosophie. Dommage.
NB : un dictionnaire et un peu de curiosité te simplifieraient la vie. Si tel n'est pas ton avis, alors abstiens-toi de ce genre de commentaire ou, encore plus facile, NE ME LIS PAS. Merci.