Catalan language in danger?

greg   Thursday, April 21, 2005, 20:46 GMT
Adam : I kindly remind you that England was owned by the French kings who, in addition to Albion, owned Western France as vassals of the king of France.

Non mais !

Jordi   Thursday, April 21, 2005, 21:07 GMT
Yes, Chloe, Catalan nationalists are all the same (according to you) and they are the majority in Catalonia (where we can now vote in democracy). We choose our laws and vote them and I feel proud that the new Spain allows us to do just that.

I know that Spanish Nationalists or French nationalists aren't all the same. Some are simply worse than others but, of course, there, of course, you would make me believe there is no such thing as "Spanish Nationalism" although for many Spain still is, as it was for Franco: "una unidad de destino en lo universal" (roughly a unity of destiny in what is universal): you know, one religion and one language. Thank God the Spanish Inquisition was abolished in the early 19th century! Quite a recent date by the way.

Catalan version: Guaiteu els catalans som catalans i aquesta i no pas cap altra és la nostra llengua. Nosaltres no hem estat mai els qui hem volgut imposar un tarannà aliè a la llar d'altri. Vosaltres seguiu així malgrat que desitjo i, n'estic convençut, que podrem conviure si apreneu a estimar aquesta Espanya que no és pas la mateixa que la vostra. Alguns ens ho poseu fumut i l'evolució està d'avantatge en les vostres mans que no pas en les nostres.

Translation from Catalan to English: Look, we Catalans are Catalans and this and no other is our language. We have never been the ones who have wanted to impose an alien character in other peoples' home. Carry on like this although I'm convinced we can learn to live together if you learn to love a Spain which isn't the same as yours. Some of you make it difficult for us and evolution is more in your hands than in ours.
Chloe   Thursday, April 21, 2005, 21:45 GMT
Ana, don´t take any notice of him. Let him howl what he wants. He´ll get tired eventually.
Jordi   Thursday, April 21, 2005, 21:56 GMT
I will, of course, get tired here (you don't seem to have many arguments, do you?) but we shall never get tired in our own land. I sincerely hope that doesn't hurt you too much and I hope that some other posters, from other countries, will have learnt a bit more about Catalonia.
As far as Ana is concerned I would like to thank her for her patience and, especially, for her arguments. We have been able to speak in a civilised way and that, for me, is the most important thing of all.
Damian   Thursday, April 21, 2005, 22:03 GMT

Don't you feel out of place in this thread? You certainly look it!

It's essentially Continental based, and obviously a tad ruffled by discord and disharmony. Opt out mate, and come "back home"! Leave them to sort this whole Continental "business" out for themselves....whatever it's all about. It seems as if Spain really and truly isn't one single country at all Doesn't bode well for any sort of truly united Europe does it? Makes our petty Anglo/Celtic rivalries in the UK look a wee bit limp! A sort of vicarage tea party on a wet day.

If only all the potential UKIP voters here could see what's going on "over there". LOL
greg   Thursday, April 21, 2005, 22:52 GMT
Chloe : I understand your point of view may differ from Jordi's. Coming myself from a heavily centralised country (until lately), it took me time to fully appreciate Jordi's views about Catalan (or Occitan - the difference being that Catalan had and still has the strength to survive). I don't share Jordi's entire agenda - which may incidentally appear to be close to particularism according to my prejudiced perception, but I have to admit what Jordi says makes sense and is respectable. He for sure doesn't deserve snide.
Travis   Friday, April 22, 2005, 00:52 GMT
greg, and I myself do not understand why Chloe's been ranting against Catalan, and the active maintainance of the usage of such throughout society in Catalan-speaking areas, so much...
Jay   Friday, April 22, 2005, 01:33 GMT
Catalan parties are against gay marriage!
We shouldn't give more rights to those right-wing separatists from Barcelona!
greg   Friday, April 22, 2005, 05:28 GMT
Jay : how do you know that Catalans are against gay marriage ? Did they tell so you somehow ?
Jordi   Friday, April 22, 2005, 06:13 GMT
Since the Catalan Parliament (who is not in the hands of Nationalist rightists) has also agreed on gay marriage and the adoption of children by gay couples (both male and female) you are welcome to our country. Furthermore, both the gay movements in Barcelona and Madrid have been the most active in Spain battling for these rights.

Your adopted children (should you choose to have them) will learn both Catalan and Spanish as is the case right now in Catalonia and will probably make Catalan their most important home and social language whilst in Catalonia. It's only fair and although I'm a married man (with very young teenage son and daughter) I can assure you I would be pleased with any sexual choice they might want to make in their lives. The majority of Catalans (as the rest of the world) are heterosexuals but I can assure you the minority rights between two consenting adults must be legislaed and protected. On that point I can assure you their Catalan-speaking mother also agrees although everybody who has had sons secretely would like to have grand-children. Should that happen, we would love them all the more and we would be pleased to have their "friend" sitting at our table.

I would have thought a real gay activist (as you seem to be) would have been closer to common sense since it is elsewhere (religious institutions, world power governments) where you'll find the gay issue and agenda has the most problems.
Jordi   Friday, April 22, 2005, 06:32 GMT
Cher Greg:

Merci pour ta gentillesse. Thanks for being so nice.
Thanks to Travis again.
I also thank Damian and Adam for "popping in" in this regional continental affair. I would like to tell my friend Damian that the Balearic Islands (Catalan-speaking) are as much a part of insular Europe as Great Britain, Ireland or some lesser islands (Malta, Cyprus, Mann, Channel Islands or other North Sea islands).
The "continent" also happens to be the "mainland" at least from a strictly geographical point of view. You can't really switch off although that has really little to do with the fact a United Europe must be totally respectful with the rights of the historic nations and peoples it is made up of.
Damian   Friday, April 22, 2005, 07:20 GMT
Thanks JORDI.....I am suitably chided, and I understand what you say. It's just that I am becoming more surprised at how "divided" a magnificent country like Spain seems to be, not only linguistically but culturally as well, apparently. The perceived animosity between one region of Spain and another is more aggresive than I ever imagined. Rightly or wrongly, I just set it all in a Continental European context, and I've been led to believe that what the EU is supposed to be all about is...unity. Maybe I have having my head turned, not only by what I read in this forum (and in this thread now, so I see...I must admit I haven't ventured into it before yesterday) but the occasional anti-European trend I see and hear and read about in the current British General Election morass which I'm obliged to follow. It's all very confusing but I really am all for a truly united Europe, personally, if it can ever be realistically achieved.
greg   Friday, April 22, 2005, 07:45 GMT
Damian : "I've been led to believe that what the EU is supposed to be all about is...unity".

Unity in diversity. A bit like 'E pluribus unum'.
Damian   Friday, April 22, 2005, 10:54 GMT
Yeah GREG....even so...whatever..unity? ... "a posse ad esse" would be really nice.
James   Friday, April 22, 2005, 21:09 GMT
Spain´s Balkanization. Lol