Catalan and Spanish
Dear Jordi,
I have been reading your postings on philology since 2004 and I my admiration for your knowledge of the Romance languages grows every day.
I myself was born in Argentina more than half a century ago, grand children of assorted Europeans, as every other Latin American of that time.
For a strange coincidence, my mother's grandparents came from Piedmont, were they spoke Aupenc Occitan, I think and my father's grandparents came from Carcassona, were they spoke Lengadocian Occitan, I presume.
I was born a Castilian speaker, but life drove me to learn English, French, Italian and Portuguese, that I master today. I had a recent and very touching encounter with Occitan through Kate Mosse's "Labyrinth". Extraordinary book.
Since I read it, I have been trying to get hold of what was the original language of my ancestors. Abundant tears rolled down from my eyes when I first heard "Se canta, que cante", a few days ago. Since then, I have found at least eight versions of that beautiful love hymn . . . I think Occitan is a very lively and rich language!
I even bought an Occitnan songs CD and the vendor wrote me an e-mail in Occitan! Ain't that awsome!!
The one thing I can't find is the melodie of the nursing song: "Bona nuèit, bona nuèit/Braves amics, pica mièja nuèit/Cal finir velhada/E jos la flassada"
Can you translate it to me? Do you know where I can hear it?
My warmest regards.
It is funny to read how these catalan call everything in Spain Castillian, and then they are the ones opressed by the castillian....hehehe. Well let me explain to you that Spain is a nation formed by different identities and yes you are right castillian is one of them so is Gallician, Basque, Leonese, Asturian, Aragonese, Andalucian,.....?or for you they are all castillian too. Well let me tell this, go to Leon ,Galicia ,Asturias or Basque then go to Castillian , come back then and tell me what you've found and learnt. This new disease called nationalism is cured with travelling my friend Jordi. Also found funny to read things like "we speak 2 languages and you castillian not" Ok I got it now.....what about basque, asturian-leonese, galician?what are those?are those ones not languages as well?
Look it is great you are catalan and think you are the best and catalan is the best language in the whole and all that, from the button of my hearth I wish cataluna could seperate if that is what wishes.
Saludines mui axebreigos dende las festeiras asturllionesas :-)
dose any one know What do the Catalonians want from the central Spanish government? Trying to find the answer but I need an answer quick.
They want money.....what else could politician be after rather than money?
They claim a lot of tax and do not get anything back, well all that bullshit!!! some of them even claim they do sustain Spain....hahaha.....how much igarance! Well my friend jordi or catalan naticonalism come to Vega de Antonan (within the Leon Province) and check that they still do not even have a main road across the village......and as far as I know we all pay "spanish tax"....10 years waiting for that damn road unbelivable and then catalan complain.....It is obvious forget all that language identity, language, culture and all that they say (they are many more languages and identities in the peninsula iberica do not feel so special with your catalan) they want money and more money!!
I've never had anything against Catalunya until I lived there for almost 3 years. Being a Galician I found funny that the Catalans kept on calling me Castellá o Madrileño. It seems to be a constant in the Catalan mentality to divide Spain in two countries: Catalunya and Spain. It sounds ridiculous but it´s one the mental tricks the Catalans keep on playing. I also found insulting the complete ignorance the average catalan displays concerning the rest of the Iberian Peninsula, because after all they are part of it and are certainly more "iberian" that the celts to the west of them. Until this silly mentality doesn´t change in Catalunya is only fair that the rest of Iberian people use similar tricks with the Catalans.
David Garcia ,Guest, Galego:
Good try , but no use.
"Until this silly mentality doesn´t change in Catalunya is only fair that the rest of Iberian people use similar tricks with the Catalans."
You just gave yourself away . You are using silly tricks. Stop pretending you are galician, asturlian or leonese! How strange one person of each province to leave a message. Ridiculous behaviour ,I just feel sorry for you.
Mr. or Mrs. "star". Thanks for your sorry feelings... but could easily feel sorry for yourself because this is the first time I posted in this forum and haven't even read Garcia's comment. Damn straight I am a Galician. Here is weather report today from the Rias Baixas: saw the sun for first time in a week, much less windy than the past 2 weeks, temp around 16 deg. mostly cloudy, visibility over 10 miles at least out of my window.
The plain truth is that out here (the rest of the Iberian peninsula) we are getting a little tired of the arrogance and ignorance of some Catalans. True about some Madrileños too. Speaking for myself it´s getting a little tiresome to listen to some Catalans rant over and over about how they are the world´s belly button. Besides that they have their little obsession of being a little "frenchy" and not Iberians. Well, heck no, the Catalans are not genetically different from the Aragonese, the Murcianos, the Leonese or the guys from Huelva, even the Southern French are not different from the Spaniards. Even the "anglo-saxons" share a most of their genes with the Iberians. Being a little richer than the rest of us have made some of you people a little too arrogant... Franco is mostly dead... nobody is oppressing you. Time to clear your mind and get rid of passed obsessions.
Signed,
Galego (damn straight!!!)
Mr or Mrs Star,
you are a pathetic ignorant. My name is David Garcia Ordonez (do you need my DNI???), I was born in Leon (from leonese parents - father from Vega de Antonan and mother from San Feliz de Torio) therefore I am and feel leonese. I live in Ireland as the mine crisis in the Leon Province made many of us migrate abroad and around the peninsula seeking for a better life. I guess you did not even know they were mines in Leon.....yeap and they bloody closed leaving 10% of the population without jobs!!!!
"Stop pretending you are galician, asturlian or leonese!"
This statement just proves what ignorance there is in Catalunya. I guess you refer to that asturian or leonese thing because I firstly wrote in asturleonese "Saludines mui axebreigos dende las festeiras asturllionesas" which means "regards from the the astur lands". If you did not live in your catalan bubble you would know that asturian and leonese shared the same culture in the past, the astur culture (which is a celtic culture), astures in the mountains and cisastures in the other part of the mountains. We also shared the same language, Leones (originally called like this as Leon was the capital and name of the kingdom at the time). Nowadays it is called asturianu in asturias due to the fact it is where most vitality has. There are still many active speakers in Leon, Zamora and Salamanca (mainly in Leon province and Zamora province) in which many people refer it as lliones or asturlliones. Just a quick note to say, Lliones is official in Miranda do Douru in where it is called Mirandes. In the new "Estatuto de Castille and Leon" Lliones will appear as a protective language and is intended to be taken into the school as in Asturias.
Am I boring you Star?? I guess it is too much for you to learn in just few minutes... isnt it?....I guess this does not interest you as I do not mention YOUR WONDERFUL catalunya or catalan.....and you thought everything in Spain was Castille and Castilian....I might be discovering new countries for you, Am I not??? but i guess you do not really care and you will keep on calling us castellanos or madrilenos....or whatever you call us!!
To be honest, most of the catalan nationalism are sons of other iberian emigrats so can I take you guys serious when you go saying things like We are not Iberian or spanairds?
David Garcia (damn Leonese)
Excelente, David!!! ¿Irlanda? ¿Qué fuerte, no? Aunque no creo que el tiempo ahí sea hoy peor que el de aquí, que vuelve a empeorar. Viento del Sur de alrededor de 10 nudos a juzgar por el abeto del jardín.
Me encanta ver que yo no soy el único saturado de tanto catalanismo arrogante e ignorante (estas "virtudes" gustan de viajar juntas). Nada en contra del catalanismo sano, que conste.
Pues nada "saludines mui axebreigos" desde las Rías Baixas o como decimos por aquí "unha aperta".
Galego (damn straight!!!)
Galego! A me encantan las culturas y la diversidad de identidades por eso que no tengo nada contra de el lenguaje catalan, los catalanes o la cultura catalana, de hecho la encuentro muy fastinante. Pero de hay a invertarse cosas y jugar la baza de opremidos....pero de que hablan!!!??quien son los opresores!!!??Lo que pasa es que les jode pagar impuestos y que estos vallan a zonas mas necesitadas de la peninsula, solidaridad se llama pero bueno ya sabes bien ese dicho de que los catalanes son muy agarrados no?
Carallo, Por onde andas?Dende onde me falas? Yo amo mi tierrina leonesa pero tambien la asturiana y la gallega.......digo yo que eso viene de generaciones, historia comun, costumbres compartidas,....! La ultima vez que fue al pueblo de mi padre (en la cepeda leonesa) estaban celebrando un Congosto y bebimos queimada como cada ano! seguro que esto te suena no???
Mis padres vivieron en Burella 6 anos, yo 3 y pico (casi 4 segun mis padres) por eso me encanta leer sobre la cultura galega, sobre toda la cocina jijiji...que bien prestoda que ye :-)
Me despido con este poema de Eva González, escritora leonesa de Palacios del Sil (solo un par de versos ya que es muy largo).
"Los nuesos nomes"
Nun s'atoupa nesti mundu
una l.lingua más guapina
que la nuesa, nuesa fala,
nuesa faliel.la dulcina.
La que falamos eiquí,
na nuesa guapa tierrina,
nestos val.les tan formosos
todita la xentiquina.
Si non amirái los nomes:
las Rosas fonon Rosinas,
los Manolos, Manolines
ya las Josefas, Pepinas.
Los pastores, pregueirinos,
las vaqueras, vaqueirinas,
las brañeras, brañeirinas,
las pastoras, pregueirinas.
Qué falax amorosín!
¡Qué cousas cariñosinas!
¡Qué guapinos nuesos nomes!
¡Qué formosura de l.lingua!.
By the way, Guest is me.......just keep forgetting to type down my name on the top..hehehe!!
Take care you all :-)
David
"estaban celebrando un Congosto....." quise decir Magosto.....se me fue un pouquin....:-)
Salu y ya falamos.
The Magusto (magosto) is a tradition of Portugal, Galicia and Asturias.
The origin of the word is obscure, and the celebration is thought to be of pre-Roman origin. The Basque have the gaztañarre, it is almost the same tradition only a bit different, I think.
The magusto was also celebrated in family reunions where the dead had their place in the table. It is thought to be a ritual for the dead, a family reunion.
Hi Gringo,
This Magosto (magusto) tradition has been spreaded to leon province many years ago, make sense thinking that Galicia and part of Portugal used to belong to the Asturias and then Leon kingdoms. In the Leon is very famous to organise "filandones" with "magosto" on it. The most popular magosto in Leon has to be the one in El Bierzo though the ones in La Cepeda, La Magarateria, Los Ancare , Laciana and even Leon city are also very popular and normally bring a lot people together.
