The relationships between the neo-Latin languages
Sergio, are you a hispano-american or a spaniard.
I know that in L.A people tend to use very much the simple past, while in Spain people tend to use more the passado compuesto as we do in oral french (but still also continue to use the simple past at oral)
It is tru that in french of today, the simple past has become so few used that most people (myself include) would have hesitation to write it, and even to say it spontaneously.
the past subjonctive is almost a "dead" tense. Only people who have made studies of literrature knows it.
I think that Castillian grammar is too ritualized. The whole "vosotros" thing is rather strange. But I suppose it's appropriate, being that in the singular form, you still have "tu" and "usted".
Fab,
Do you usually use "vosotros" conjugation, or do you follow the L.A. fashion?
LAA,
for me "vosotros" is just the plural of "tu".
And "ustedes" is the plural of "usted"
vosotros is very useful if you want to say have a less formal relation with a group of people, as if you said "tu" to each one. Ustedes is formal.
What do you call L.A fashion ? As far I know there are differences on this points : some countries used "vos" instead of "tu", and in other (such as Costa Rica), only "usted" and "ustedes" exist.
The Italian equivalent of vosotros is "vostra". The Romanian equivalent is "voastra". There you go. There's some Romance Language bonding for you.
Well, honestly, I'm only familiar with the Mexican way. We never use vosotros. It would just involve a whole other way of conjugating the verb. When people do use the Castillian form (often taught in professional schools), people here think they speak funny. I have never had any actual schooling, so what I know is from personal study and simply asking questions of my relatives. Here, we just use "ustedes" as plural for both "tu" and "usted".
a.p.a.m. -
That's not exactly correct. The Italian equivalent of "vosotros" is "voi". "vostra" is a possessive adjective used in conjunction with a feminine noun.
Ex "You (all) need to bring your chair from the other room." (En)
"(Voi) Dovete portare la vostra sedia dall'altra stanza" (It)
Roamanian and Italian sound similar but Romanians and Italians will probably not understand eachother very well, since most words are very different.
Spanish and Italian are probably the closest of the latin tounges, because they sound similar (spanish from spain that is, which has a certain tone and accent very similar to italian). The words are also very similar (again, this is true for the spanish spoken in Spain, which still uses some words which aren't used in latin american spanih). Spaniards and Italians will understand eachother about 80% because thwe words are so similar
Casa - Casa
Yo - Io
soy - sono
como - come
estas - stai
Liceo - Liceo
the list is too long for me to write so...
Spanish and portugese sound different since the portugese have a very exagerated accent. But portugese and spanish are both very similar when written. After all, they both flourished from the same peninsula.
French and Italian in my opinion is very different. The words have have more of a germanic root as well as latin.
LAA,
you wrote:
"So Marius, you think Romanian and Spanish are equally close to Italian, only at different ends of the spectrum?"
Romanian sounds a little more similar to Italian than Spanish does. But Romanian words are VERY different, nd so is the sentence structure. In my opinion, CASTILLIAN Spanish (spanish spoken in spain) is the closest to Italian. As I said before, Italians and Spaiards can have conversations without ever having to be bilingual, the words and sentence structure is so similar, that both will understand what eachother says easily.
Reading some more of the comments, I believe more in the "Northern and Southern" ctegory of latin tounges
Being a natural spanish speaker, I see Portugese, Spanish, Italian, Gallego, etc. (southern european) to be different from French, Catalan, Romanian, etc. (northern) because of the germanic and Slavic influence.
I can barely understand french, written or spoken, and I am from Spain. Yet, Italian sounds very similar as does portugese. Yet I understand Romanian even less then I do french!
So here is what I believe are closer: (in order from closest)
Spanish - Italian
Spanish - Portugese
Spanish - French
Spanish - Romanian
Italian - Spanish
Italian - Portugese
Italian - Romanian
Italian - French
French - Spanish
French - Italian
French - Portugese
French - Romanian
Portugese - Spanish
Portugese - Italian
Portugese - French
Portugese - Romanian
Romanian - Italian
Romanian - French
Romanian - Spanish
Romanian - Portugese
Romanian sounds a little more similar to Italian than Spanish does. But Romanian words are VERY different, nd so is the sentence structure. In my opinion, CASTILLIAN Spanish (spanish spoken in spain) is the closest to Italian. As I said before, Italians and Spaiards can have conversations without ever having to be bilingual, the words and sentence structure is so similar, that both will understand what eachother says easily.
------>>>>
This is true to some extent, if they use -academic- words they'll probably understand eachother more so then just plain basic words.
Spanish: {{formal}}
retornar; (retorno, retornas, retorna, retornamos, retornan & retornáis)
poseer; (poseo, posees, posee, poseemos, poseen & poseéis)
Italian: {{basic}}
ritornare; (ritorno, ritorni, ritorna, ritorniamo, ritornano & ritornate)
possedere; (possedo, possedi, possede, possediamo, possedeno & possedete)
&
Prender: ((1. tr. Asir, agarrar, sujetar algo.))
Agarrar: ((2. tr. Coger, tomar.))
Coger: ((1. tr. Asir, agarrar o tomar. U. t. c. prnl.))
{{{{{According to the -real academia espanola-}}}}
I COULD USE:
Quiero prender aquella cosa (spanish)
Voglio prendere quella cosa (italian)
I want to get/grasp that thing (english)
Nice, eh?
Here's the Spanish translation: (it's similar)
"You (all) need to bring your chair from the other room." (En)
"(Voi) Dovete portare la vostra sedia dall'altra stanza/camera" (It)
"(Vosotros) Debéis traer vuestra silla de la otra habitación/recámara" (sp)
>>Hey Sérgio I like your name it´s a pitty you got her before me.
Hi Joey,
What do you mean by that?
" French - Spanish
French - Italian
French - Portugese
French - Romanian "
I don't agree. French is much closer to Italian than to Spanish.
From a french point of view, Spanish, as Portuguese seem "less latin related" than does Italian and French.
" Reading some more of the comments, I believe more in the "Northern and Southern" category of latin tounges "
" I see Portugese, Spanish, Italian, Gallego, etc. (southern european) to be different from French, Catalan, Romanian, etc. (northern) because of the germanic and Slavic influence. "
No, the difference is between "western" and "eastern" groups of latin languages, not between a "northern" and "southern" group. And by the way I don't see what is more "northern" about Catalunia than Galicia...
Contrary of what preconcieved ideas that some posters here would want to believe, the influcence of germanic languages is not bigger in French than in Spanish.
Spanish and portugese sound different since the portugese have a very exagerated accent. ~~
I noticed the Portuguese and Galician sound almost the same way, they are the closest]
Galician and Portuguese sound alike. They both have the same "very exagerated" accent. Tehey are the same langauge.
They're not the same language since a few centuries, they're brother languages (both descending from medieval Galaico-Portuguese). But anyway, Ricardo, what do you mean by "exagerated accent"??? I guess it can only express your subjective feeling when earing Portuguese...
